AIBU to not know the point of capitalism?

[TooBigForMyBoots]

OK, so I'm not an idiot. Did politics, economics, languages and other stuff. Got a degree and everything. I've studied ideologies/religions/philosophies and lived for 50 years. Paid close attention to the news/history along the way. Somehow though, I seem to have forgotten why Capitalism is a good thing. And the actual point of it.

Back in the day, I understood it as innovation and talent being exhalted by consumer demand for the goods/services in a competitive market. Hard work achieving rewards. Demand and supply (including supply of labour) balancing out.

But it seems it is just about very rich and super rich people getting richer while those who actually work, MC/WC whatever are expected to pay. Intelligence and hard work aren't important and won't necessarily get you ahead.

Being minted and connected to politicians certainly will. Is this Capitalism in 2022? Or AIBU and missing something?

India was once extremely rich, same with regions of Africa before colonial plundering. India was once the richest country in the world, then Argentina at one point. You are thinking of russia as a traditional European country when it isnt. Read some german accounts of the local areas they saw in russia in the first war, or about the shtetls. Vast areas of nothing with villages of one room wooden houses. Serfdom was only abolished in 1860 so the vast majority of the population were slaves.

Again people seem so quick to malign Marxism and Communism, but they are valid workable systems for a family or a smaller community. The problem comes when you try and scale it. That’s partially what makes it so dangerous because it intuits as quite sensible to the average person.

One positive Capitalism has achieved from a historical perspective is it frees us from mercantilism which was the economics that underpinned Empire.

The ultimate take home for me on the philosophy of economics is we tend to do better as a species the more liberty we have. The institution of slavery by way of example actively hindered innovation. The ancient Greeks had the rudimentary principles of steam power and all sorts of innovations that were never really applied because there was no need because of slave Labour. This stifled innovation.

However Liberty is a virtue comprised of two elements: namely the concepts of Freedom and Responsibility. You cannot meaningfully have one without the other.

A free market government would have let the banks fail. Nationalising them was a socialist move.

Communist governments really haven't been great for the planet either.

Regarding India, the most relevant part is "before colonial plundering". There was plenty of time for that between 1757 and 1917. Even then, it's probably true to say that India, which is a very big country, had large areas of poverty too.

Regarding sub-Saharan Africa (which is the bit I mentioned), no part of it has ever been wealthy, comparatively speaking, to except for some very small parts.

There's no sensible way of saying that the Russian Empire was the poorest part of the world in 1917. It had plenty of money- in very few hands

What are you talking about?? A weekend break to the Aral Sea - leastways what's left of it - will stay with you for the rest of your life in the form of various carcinogens

The 1945 government was voted out after one term. It's a Tory country.

"Calitalism is natural and moral. It asserts that what is yours is yours, and no-one has the right to take it from you. "

Ironically, capitalism relied on colonisation and the slave trade to develop. We stole actual people to harvest cotton, sugar and tobacco.
We stole natural resources from other countries such as Africa, India and the Americas so the above statement is flawed.

Don't even get me started on the fossil fuel industry raking in profit and hiking the prices.

A monoploly is taking what rightfully belongs to a community and selling it back to them at a high price.

I firmly believe that capitalism does not work at all. If it did, then we would not pollute our own environment, use up finite resources and plunge the vast majority into wage slavery while making the few rich. For a system to work it needs to ensure the continuity of a species.Capitalism dosn't care about that.

But that's still saying capitalism is responsible for social media, which is as silly as saying that the social and economic system that existed when we were all cavemen and women was responsible for the invention of fire. Just because an event happened under a specific system does not mean that it would never have happened under any other system.

I only used communism as an example of another system that somehow managed to create the conditions for some amazing technological advances despite not being capitalism. I could have used inventions that were created under feudalism, theocracy, etc.

Do you believe that all of the inventions that happened under capitalism would not have done so without it? Because that would be totally mad. So why should social media be the exception?

I would not disagree if you were to say that capitalism has facilitated the amazing rate of technological progress we have seen over the last 150 years (credit where it's due) and maybe that's what you were getting at, but that isn't what you said.

A free market government would have let the banks fail. Nationalising them was a socialist move.

But they didn't nationalise them, did they? They just chucked loads of money at their mates so they and their mates wouldn't go bankrupt.

If they'd actually nationalised the banks that wouldn't have been a bad thing.

Social media (as we know it) is only possible because of the freedoms we have. It doesn't go well with state censorship

It was the USSR who diverted the tributaries.

Social media is a double edged sword though isn't it?! Hardly a worthy invention or used to propel humanity forward. I am addicted for a atart.
It encourages us to hanker after the wealth of the 1% rich and consume accordingly....look at all the influencers on instagram. It also fuels the keeping the jones's mentality.
Invented by capitalism for capitalism!

Start*

Thanks to everyone for contributing. It will be interesting to see what follows Capitalism.

Capitalism is about freedom and choice

The choice to become a worker or not, do the bare minimum or work multiple jobs. The choice to spend 3 years of your life and get £30,000+ on getting an education to do a job which won’t pay the debt back or go out and start working at 16/18.

The choice as to where you spend the money you have.

Everyone has a choice of what they do with their life.
Just because you are a worker on minimum wage doesn’t mean that is your lot for the rest of your life.
Capitalism gives you a chance of being in the top 1%.
The top 1% isn’t set in stone.
Look at where you can save money.
Look at alternative ways to make money as well as your your f/t job and there is no reason you can’t move yourself into a better position.

As a 2nd generation immigrant my family came to this country with just the clothes on their back. Apart from housing 8 adults in a 2 bed 1 box room house on a slum housing estate in a northern town. No one gave them any other hand outs.
Capitalism meant that they had the freedom to make money and keep themselves and achieve what people think is the unachievable if you start life at such a low beginning.

But things are changing now and it's getting harder and harder to work to get anywhere.

Big companies are buying up more and more smaller companies, Tescos/Sainsburys/coop now open smaller stores anywhere there's a corner shop and put them out of businesses.

Profits and paying the shareholders are all that's important. With all the energy price increases no one is going to have spare money for anything else and many business will go bust, making the situation even worse. Capitalism will eventually consume itself when there's no money left as the billionaires will have it all.

@Kennykenkencat I don't feel there is much choice under capitalism. I must work to accumulate enough money to live. So, starting from my first Saturday job at 15 I have been paid exploitatively low wages, not paid at all, discriminated against, harassed, put in unsafe situations, manipulated into extra hours and bullied, all by employers or in the workplace. You can try to complain, but you will probably lose your job. Good luck finding another one. So, like everyone. I have sucked it up, tried to get on and appreciated the good experiences mixed with the bad. But really, I would rather have had more free time and to be able to afford the necessities without being a slave to the capitalist system. And, if you are poor, slavery is what it is.