Colleague off long term sick but running businesses on the side

[bubblesandfizzwithcherryontop]

A colleague of mine, lets call her Jane has been off sick for the last 5 months.
She stormed out of the office one day after a row with our manager after being challenged about her bad attitude towards others and refusal to do certain aspects of her job role.

Despite being off sick and on full pay (NHS), Jane has been running a couple of home-based businesses on the side. One is arts and crafts based (making keepsake type gifts to sell), and the other is make up artistry (she does wedding and party make up). She advertises both of these side businesses all over Facebook and other SM. Very open about both of them.

People from work are on her SM, but this doesn't seem to deter her from advertising the businesses whilst off sick, allegedly too stressed to even get out of bed.

Its causing a lot of resentment at work, especially as she's on full pay.

This is not the same thing! Are people who are off sick with stress or depression meant to lock themselves away at home? Unbelievable

Do you know the person involved, how were you able to identify her from the post?

Do you think that workshy chancers don't exist ?

What for? She isn't obviously doing anything illegal. Just because someone is off sick for one job doesn't mean they can't do another. This is between the employer and the person off sick - whether they are telling the truth or not, a doctor has signed a fit note and if anyone is going to call that doctor a liar, it needs to be the employer. The OP is only privy to partial information and doesn't know everything.

Yes, sometimes people take the proverbial. But equally, sometimes colleagues are a bit too keen to stick their noses where they don't belong and come to judgements that are wrong and none of their business.

@LittleBirdBlu no of course not. But up if you were signed off sick with depression for eight weeks, would you honestly think it was sensible to post endless photos of yourself getting lashed at festivals? It's thoughtless and shows a total lack of respect for colleagues.

One of the problems with the NHS is that it's incredibly difficult to manage poor performance. As soon as they get a hint they're going on a performance plan, they sign themselves of sick with stress. It's really frustrating for managers and for the rest of the team who have to pick up the slack.

If people are unwell and struggling with mental health, I fully support them taking time off and doing what they need to do to protect their mental health. People who are genuinely unwell don't normally post all over Facebook about their social life, second business or whatever.

Do you remember your counter fraud training?

This is fraud.

cfa.nhs.uk/reportfraud

And in the real world, not MN, this wouldn’t be ok.

But that isn't exactly true, is it? The actual terms are that falsely making an unfit
for work declaration (no evidence that she has - she has a fit note), or failing to disclose other paid or unpaid work when on sickness absence (which there is no evidence that she has not declared it - in fact she is posting it up for all to see!) may constitute fraud. Not "is fraud" but "may be". An example of fraudulently working whilst off sick is an individual declaring to their primary NHS employer that they are unfit to work, and then carrying out their same or a similar role at another organisation. The last time I looked, the NHS didn't offer make-up sessions or crafts for sale.

Working for yourselves is not necessarily a 'paid employment '

And it is certainly not fraud

Well, presumably her extra earnings could push her into a different tax bracket. I think all earnings have to be declared to HMRC, however many jobs you have.

No doubt she’ll be at the front of the queue to say how the NHS are strapped for cash etc etc. The NHS annual sick pay bill is eye watering. If she’s not doing anything technically wrong, it is morally wrong at the very least. There should be a mechanism by which she reports in weekly for assessment and pay back her in earned earnings.

cfa.nhs.uk/fraud-prevention/reference-guide/types-of-fraud-within-the-NHS/NHS-employees/general-staff-agency-workers-contractors-trainees

Please re-read my original message and the attached definitions of NHS Employee fraud.

Surely this can’t be allowed

And you know she isn't declaring any earnings that she gets how? Or how much she earns at these jobs and the tax brackets she is in? There are an awful lot of assumptions going on here for a group of people who don't actually know her.

Look, I know people do take the proverbial. I know that some people claim sick pay and are not unfit for work (although that isn't always the same thing as not sick). But what we don't know is whether the OP is part of a bully gang that have pushed her over the edge. Or whether her manager is a complete twat. There are two sides to every story and we only have one side. Even by the OP's version of it, she has been signed off sick by a medical doctor and she advertises some small business stuff on social media - which is actually not the same thing as ever making a penny from it.

It isn't up to us to decide she isn't really sick. It isn't up to the up to decide that either. It is between the employer, the employee and their respective medical advisors.

Did anyone read the thread about someone feeling that they were being judged as being lazy / a liar / mentally ill because they had long Covid? It is exactly threads like this, judgemental and in places quite nasty, that make people feel like that. When you've walked in the other person's shoes for a few miles, you may feel differently.

Yes OP, I would also be really annoyed about this.
at a guess, your department is under staffed and you’re working under pressure. Someone is off sick and yet again, the pressure falls on those at work to do more, more, more. And then some piss takers are ‘too ill’ for work, off on full pay for 6 months and their colleagues are picking up all the slack. Add the insult of seeing that they’re not actually ill at all and it’s no wonder you’re pissed off.

I have read the link. I have also read the more detailed information provided to trusts on this matter. It is not as clear cut as you say it is.

This!

Does the contract the person work under prevent outside earnings?

The other thing you could do is that if you know someone buying or planning to have the wedding or other make-up, let them know that the person concerned is doing as you allege. Might be unreliable if off sick, and no-one would want a person to let them down on their wedding day.

Had the same situation but was in a local authority not nhs. HR didn’t want to touch it as person was off with stress (and who is to say what relieves a persons stress was their general view) even though employee was in local paper promoting their business!! HR only took action when evidence was found that showed the person had been conducting private business using their company email.

And that is why it should be reported to LCFO for their investigation to determine whether this individual is committing fraud.

I really think it is not your business and maybe she suffers from anxiety or depression and this keeps her sane and really how much can she be making from a few home made arts and crafts things. Not as if she has a production line in place. People should not be gossiping at work and just get on with their own lives as not fair on the person who is off sick.

Utter bollocks and one of the reasons we are in the shit state we are. People taking the piss and getting away with it.

When I went off sick from work with stress my doctor specifically encouraged me to continue with hobbies, seeing friends, and other work

Well, obviously I don’t. But not many MUAs work for free, especially for weddings. What I do know is that you are only allowed to use your personal tax allowance on one job, anything else is taxed without allowance, unless both pay less than the personal allowance.

You can then ask HMRC to add part of the second income to the first until the total is £12500 and you are taxed on that. E.G. Job 1 pays £10000, Job 2 pays £5000, HMRC can add £2500 from the second job and your allowance is used on that. You then pay 20% on the remaining £2500.

I can easily see that doing some crafty things and meeting people to do their make up could be constructive things she's doing to help her recovery.

If she's stressed, doing nothing on her own all day won't help her get better.

Presumably she has to declare second jobs at work and she's not hiding it.