To dislike the way unions push for big payrises only at the bottom?

[WillitFit]

I work in school. The lowest paid teachers are to get c.9% and everyone else 5% (if they accept it).

Support staff have been offered a fixed sum, just under £2000 on all points. Which is more than 10% for some, about 3% for me!

Everyone works hard and everyone deserves payrises that keep pace with inflation, surely? The more senior people have worked hard to get to where they are, often over many years, why is it OK to see their pay eroded?

@Greensleeves totally agree with this

I really dislike this line that's so often trotted out that "senior people have worked hard to get where they are". It misses the point, perhaps wilfully - many of those on the lowest pay are also working hard. There have always been people working incredibly hard, often in the most back-breaking and unrewarding jobs, who don't have the opportunity to rise through the system and access better pay and a higher standard of living. If you're a middle manager or a teacher or whatever, don't assume you've worked harder than those 'under' you, those who empty your bins and care for your sick and elderly relatives. It's bollocks, and it's an assumption that underpins and justifies inequality and chronic poverty.

But there also should be higher pay for qualified and experienced teachers. Another poster was right in saying people won't want jobs with more responsibility for a Few quid more.

I absolutely haven't applied to climb the school greasy pole because I looked at the TLR versus the money and thought "nope". The stress, hours and responsibilities of a HoD for a non core subject just isn't worth a crappy 2C or 2B TLR pay uplift. After 17years of good results, and being considered an excellent teacher I am starting to want out.

And therein lies another issue.

Right now, uplift those at the bottom first. But there needs to be BIG commitments from government to fund education properly.

I'm a high earner. % based pay rises are stupid, the poor sods earning 19k are aghast at a 2% pay rise, for those earning 100k it's 2,000.

The teachers who will be getting the 8.9% pay rise are currently on £25,714.

The teachers who will be getting the 5% pay rise are currently on £36,961+

Is there really that much difference between incomes that those on the bottom on £26k should be regarded as 'poor sods' who can't afford to eat who deserve an inflationary pay rise, and those on £37k who are apparently rolling in clover, able to buy whatever house they like and have masses of disposable income therefore can shoulder a 5% pay cut?

(TA wages are shit, their wages need rethinking entirely)

Agreed it's not what unions are pushing for.

I am relatively senior and have worked my pay rise out as around 2k, which amounts to around £170 per month. Taxed at 20%, the real terms rise is just under £140pcm - that is less than my energy company want to increase my DD by and by far doesn't cover any other increases in bills.

So while an initial 2k uplift sounds great (and I'll certainly take it over nothing at all), it is an insult to experienced teachers to effectively get another pay cut.

There is a serious retention crisis and pupils and results are suffering badly.

I don't think it's that people higher up the pay scale think others are 'below' them and deserve less pay.

I think that people who have taken on more and more responsibility in order to move up the pay scale, feel that they did all that on the understanding that they would have more money left at the end of the month.

To slowly erode experienced teachers pay, means that there is less incentive to work harder and take on more responsibility. So then we will have teachers saying actually no I'm not going to do that because it's not my role.

It is interesting that more and more teachers are standing up for themselves and refusing to take on extra workload. The teaching profession relies on the good will of the teaching (and definitely the good will of the support staff) staff. That good will is disappearing and there will be no experienced teachers left.

Also, not to derail the thread, but the DD of a friend has just left school and got a job as a Healthcare Assistant in the NHS. Her starting salary (after the £1400 rise) is over £25000. She has no previous experience of working in a similar role but does have an A Level which is relevant.

I've seen the offer letter with my own eyes.

She can't believe how much she is going to earn and even feels a bit bad that it's so much compared to other jobs that need degrees and other qualifications.

I've told her not to feel guilty at all. It is not her fault that other jobs pay even less.

But it made me realise just how little teachers (and many other skilled roles- I know teachers are not alone in this) get paid.

It is interesting that more and more teachers are standing up for themselves and refusing to take on extra workload.

Not wanting to derail the thread, but what is being asked of teachers now compared to when I started almost two decades ago is disgusting in comparison.

When I started out, my role was literally to teach my classes and ensure their coursework was up to scratch, with 3 break time duties per week in there. That was it, as a newly qualified teacher.

Our ECTs now have training on top of our normal CPD sessions, have been roped in to run revision classes every week, have been placed on detention rotas (fewer than TLR holders, but still on there), are on the lunch duty rota (paid extra), have had to plan lessons used by the whole department for certain year groups/ topics, have been asked to run after school clubs and, unlike me when I started, are held to all of this by being placed on a 6-month probation period rather than starting with a permanent contract.

The amount of work they are being asked to do has increased unreasonably. So yes, they should push back against all of this, because their goodwill is being exploited.

And I am, and have, said no to a few things on the list above as it's not part of my contract and I will not be worked into the ground. Just like many others things being thrown my way as a TLR holder. But it takes big balls and the knowledge that there is a serious shortage of staff in my subject to do this.

Agreed

The primary school Teaching Assistant role has changed massively. Most TAs cover classes regularly. Whole days (sometimes weeks) on your own with a class of 30, teaching from sets of slides or scribbled notes. The teacher has a TA to support behaviour and special needs, but we have do do without. Only a half hour break in the day, too, which is often spent catching up with marking or hunting down resources. Even the SLT refer to us as teachers! But, yeah, give the more senior, 'hardworking' staff a pay rise, I'm sure they deserve it more than us!

Here's a thread from an economist that argues that withholding payrises from ordinary workers in order to 'avoid an inflationary spiral' actually is a measure that increases the profits of companies rather than keeping prices down. Energy companies just posting incredible profits does rather undermine the argument that their price increases are totally warranted.

twitter.com/richardjmurphy/status/1552920687639142400?s=21&t=zJY2ZvL3QP4WhSsAmMDOvA

I don't see anyone arguing that TAs don't deserve a payrise, Tiarella

Nobody is saying that TAs don't deserve a payrise, but I think some people are implying that the gap between Teachers' pay and TAs' should be getting even wider which seems unfair as TAs are taking on a lot more responsiblity than they used to. I think Teachers should be getting a payrise that at least matches inflation but I also think TA pay needs completely relooking at as mentioned earlier, as it has become completely out of proportion to what's expected from us!

Thanks for this one. I will have a read indeed.
To reduce big companies profit's and the massive wages some of these guys pay themselves, the goverment would have to exercise pressure and our goverment.... well, I cannot see them going around doing so sadly.

I do like it. Very simple, but I do have a question.
He says money does not dissapear into a black hole but I do see a hole in UK's new situation. Coming out of the EU common market, I thought this means that UK has to pay trade taxes into the WorldBank for each import and export from and to the EU? Which we did not before as there was an agreement between us? So we will lose some money on this? Still, he is right, we cannot let corporations profit while employees struggle squeezed there with no options.

But quite often higher paid jobs are gifted with a heck of a lot of responsibility. If I make a mistake in my job, i could go to jail. That's reflected in my salary. And why wouldn't I buy a more expensive house in proportion to my salary? People who earn more money are allowed to enjoy some niceties - like I say, there's consequences in my job. In most lower paid (=less responsibility) there are not these consequences. So yes, I will enjoy a nice house but it doesn't mean I won't struggle with inflation.

This absolutely shouldn't be the case and it's a disgrace that it is. It certainly isn't like that everywhere. I haven't had a class TA for years and last year didn't have any 1:1 TAs either. Any cover for my class was done by the head or supply teachers.

I work in a school, and for the life of me cannot see why anyone would take the job of a TA. There must be better ways of earning a living