To dislike the way unions push for big payrises only at the bottom?

[WillitFit]

I work in school. The lowest paid teachers are to get c.9% and everyone else 5% (if they accept it).

Support staff have been offered a fixed sum, just under £2000 on all points. Which is more than 10% for some, about 3% for me!

Everyone works hard and everyone deserves payrises that keep pace with inflation, surely? The more senior people have worked hard to get to where they are, often over many years, why is it OK to see their pay eroded?

TAs do the same amount of work as teachers? Either you're completely stupid or this is a wind up!

Great post @Greensleeves. I completely agree!

Unions aren’t pushing for this. In my sector it’s been offered to keep pay at the lower end legal! Unions are balloting to strike to fight for higher pay rises for everyone…

There has got be a decent different between jobs like TAs and teachers, because otherwise why bother training to be a teacher, why bother getting student debt, why bother taking on that workload and responsibility, if you can be a TA and get just a bit less.

The idea is broadly to create a situation in which nobody is working flat out and still on the breadline, so of course those on criminally low pay - which is many, many workers - are a priority.

In the case of teacher pay rises, this isn't the idea at all.

It was in the Conservative manifesto of 2019 to increase newly qualified teacher pay to £30k. This latest pay rise of 8.9% for new teachers is not to keep new teacher pay in line with inflation, it is to raise it to £28k which is not keeping their manifesto promise, but the intention is to meet that next year.

The £30k figure for new teachers was arrived at as an amount needed to address the critical recruitment crisis for new teachers, and to give the government a hope of meeting recruitment targets.

Obviously now this raise will be swallowed up by inflation. If the government want to meet their manifesto promise of 2019 and give an inflationary pay rise to new teachers, they should be aiming to pay new teachers £33k.

@noblegiraffe so what's your point?

You’re still doing the same job: you can’t expect increases forever for that.

12 years. That's when you stop going up the pay grades. Teacher experience is incredibly valuable, but not particularly well rewarded.

why bother taking on that workload and responsibility, if you can be a TA and get just a bit less.

I know teachers who left teaching & took TA roles but it's a significant salary drop.

How will 'most' have a TLR? That's an additional responsibility, so for example one Head of Maths for about 12 Maths teachers in their department.

durel I posted the pay for a teacher at the top of the pay scale in the vast majority of the country. You then posted the much higher London figure (due to much higher prices in London) and said that 'most' were also on a £2k TLR.

It appeared that you were trying to make out that teachers at the top of the pay scale were earning at least £10k more than the top of the pay scale figure. Why?

I can only talk about my experience of working in London schools. I've never worked in a school with 12 teachers in one dept all on max grade. I don't think I've worked anywhere with 12 teachers in one dept regardless of grade. You don't only get tlrs for head of dept

My maths dept has 13 teachers. I'm at the top of the pay scale, not in London and don't have a TLR.

It appeared that you were trying to make out that teachers at the top of the pay scale were earning at least £10k more than the top of the pay scale figure. Why?

No, there are different payscales for the London fringe, outer London & inner London. Plus inner London has quite a wide scope. Why is only one pay scale relevant? There are thousands of schools & teachers working in London & outside since fringe can be home counties.

@noblegiraffe both of our experiences are relevant surely?

Why is only one pay scale relevant?

Well most people don't live in London, so quoting London wages and then giving them a little TLR boost for some reason makes me wonder why you are doing that.

People generally accept that people in London earn more.

Surely you’re argument should be that all public sectors need a pay rise in line with inflation??? And that teachers should be paid more, not rail workers less???

No, TLRs aren't only for HoD. That was an example, but in my school of 1300, core subjects of Maths, Science and English definitely have big departments, none of whom but the HoD would receive the additionally £2k you seem to think.

You'd get one for Head of Year too, but then for each of those (5 in an 11-16 school), there are ten normal form tutors for that year group receiving nothing extra. It's not most teaching staff.

We are talking about discrepancies between different pay rise %s. I think London is relevant because so many new younger teachers will look to London for jobs but you can disagree.

I am a teacher at top of scale and I think YABU

Pay rates for ECTs and TAs are shocking. Really bad.

That needs addressing now. ECTs are better now, TAs need better pay.

I will take my 3% for now whilst those at the bottom get their boost and hope Government will commit in the longer term to equalising the rises through the scale.

It's not most teaching staff. I said many teachers on UPS3 will have a TLR of some sort. That's my experience but you can disagree. I'm justifying why I think bigger % should be for those newer staff, lower salaries but as I said it's a tough one because experience counts.

I posted the top of the pay scale as £41,604, to show that it's not exactly big bucks.

You then said 'ah but if you were living in central London and had a TLR, you'd be on much more than that'.

But most teachers aren't. 🤷‍♀️

Im a nurse with 20 years experience... it's completely demoralising when you have so much knowledge & it just isn't acknowledged.

I will take my 3% for now whilst those at the bottom get their boost and hope Government will commit in the longer term to equalising the rises through the scale.

I've got a bridge I could sell you....3% 'for now' - it's not 3% for now though is it? It has been pay cut after pay cut after pay cut for the last 12 years. There's always some excuse not to give teachers a pay rise that meets inflation.

(it's 5% for top of the pay scale btw)

I'm in education, although no longer teaching. I'm in the exec team, and we declined a pay rise when everyone else will be getting one. Everyone at this level earns £100k+, we don't need a pay rise, especially at the moment when that budget can go to increasing the amount going to those on lower pay scales. The level below me, so senior managers, are getting 1%, I think. Again, no-one has complained, despite pay grades below them getting between 2-3.5% depending on role.

I don't understand why my experience isn't relevant or has to be representative of everyone? In London I do think 50k is not a bad salary particularly as many teachers on that will be older. Anyone older has generally had an easier time in London because of housing inflation. That's why I support those at the bottom/starting out getting a higher %.