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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

C4 news England Women's Team

74 replies

saveforthat · 27/07/2022 19:51

There are now questions about why there are no black players in the team or subs. Jesus can't we just enjoy women doing well instead of bringing race into everything.

OP posts:
hesttreat · 27/07/2022 19:53

Do you think the mens team should be the same?

We should just celebrate men doing well?

HelenHywater · 27/07/2022 19:53

are you serious? Didn't you see the interviews with the black girls?

Original poster
saveforthat · 27/07/2022 19:57

Yes. The men don't do well do they, don't you think the manager will play the best players regardless of colour. Do you think the manager will play a white player if a black player is better. Where are the Asian players, are any of them complaining.

OP posts:
JoanWilderbeast · 27/07/2022 20:02

Must admit it crossed my mind as a Londoner why it wasn't a more diverse representation player wise as per the men's team, but I wouldn't automatically jump to racism as a default as I'm sure it's more nuanced than that.

superram · 27/07/2022 20:02

I think we can celebrate current achievements but also ask the question as to why? Are there enough opportunities for black/Asian girls to play football? I live in a multicultural city but the majority of girls that I know that play are white. Widening participation for all is surely a good thing?

hesttreat · 27/07/2022 20:04

saveforthat · 27/07/2022 19:57

Yes. The men don't do well do they, don't you think the manager will play the best players regardless of colour. Do you think the manager will play a white player if a black player is better. Where are the Asian players, are any of them complaining.

No I don't think they will play a white player if others are better!

Their is a massive drive against racism in football

FrippEnos · 27/07/2022 20:09

There are three women that are from ethnic minorities in the team currently.

Personally I think that its disgusting that it is being brought up at a time when we should be supporting the team and not bringing them down.

There are also various incentives in place which people would know about if they actually knew anything about women's football instead of just wanting to knock the team.

FrippEnos · 27/07/2022 20:10

hesttreat
Their is a massive drive against racism in football

which could be taken more seriously if the world cup wasn't in a country that has such a poor human rights record.

Thecatsatonthewalls · 27/07/2022 20:18

saveforthat · 27/07/2022 19:51

There are now questions about why there are no black players in the team or subs. Jesus can't we just enjoy women doing well instead of bringing race into everything.

I thought the Ch4 news article was more about grass roots footie than the actual make up of the team.
France seems to have a far better ethnic diversity.

I wonder if a woman would ever be allowed to manage the England men's team?

Musicalsfan · 27/07/2022 20:25

Slightly off topic but I winced when Ian Wright referred to the team as ‘the girls’ on the 6 o’clock news this evening.

Rwealere · 27/07/2022 20:38

Sure I’ve heard them say the lads or the boys

Musicalsfan · 27/07/2022 20:55

They do say boys and that doesn’t bother me for some reason. I may be over sensitive - more than 30 years ago we had to stop our boss referring to my job share partner and me as ‘the girls’.

hesttreat · 27/07/2022 20:58

FrippEnos · 27/07/2022 20:10

hesttreat
Their is a massive drive against racism in football

which could be taken more seriously if the world cup wasn't in a country that has such a poor human rights record.

I agree, that's a fucking travesty!

Brefugee · 27/07/2022 21:02

The men don't do well do they

they do alright. Given the make up of the British population in general and the number of black football players in particular, I do wonder how the majority of the England (W) team are all white with blonde pony tails. It is very noticeable that the French team has a very different make up. And sure, the questions can be asked, whyever not? There are often questions about the lack of players of Asian origin in the men's team.

Brefugee · 27/07/2022 21:04

forgot to say: women's football barely gets a mention generally, so the time to talk about it is when they are visible and in the news.

FrippEnos · 27/07/2022 22:25

Brefugee · 27/07/2022 21:04

forgot to say: women's football barely gets a mention generally, so the time to talk about it is when they are visible and in the news.

but surely that is the time to big up the game with its achievements and accomplishments not knock it down.

dm1818 · 27/07/2022 23:35

imagine if someone said "there are now questions about why there are less opportunities for women to get into football than men. Jesus can't we just enjoy men playing instead of bringing gender into everything" do you realize how ridiculous you sound..

Greyskiesaregonnaclearup · 27/07/2022 23:45

There's a lot of research going into why there are so few women from ethnic minorities in football compared to men. I read about it recently as it interested me (wish i could find the link now). As expected its a complicated reflection of social dynamics such as it being inappropriate in some cultures for women to play sport and/or football, and the lack of training facilities for young women nationally (those that exist are usually in more middle class areas where people are predominantly white). There's more to it, those are the bits that I can remember but it's far more complicated than 'because racism'.

I find it very ironic that womens football has been derided for generations (thank you FA) and now the lack of black players is seen as something to hit the team's current success with.

Original poster
saveforthat · 28/07/2022 13:49

Thanks @Greyskiesaregonnaclearup I was just going to reply to @dm1818 explaining why it's not me that's being ridiculous but you have articulated this perfectly.

OP posts:
dolphinsarentcommon · 28/07/2022 13:59

All women should have the same opportunities to play football (or any other sport) and then it's their choice to play or not, and subsequently the managers responsibility to pick the best team. Irrespective of anything else... just their ability.

Opportunities is what matters surely.

Ace56 · 28/07/2022 14:07

The non-white population of England is 14%. Therefore to be representative, 14% of the players should be non-white - that’s 1.54 out of 11 players. So, rounding up, if 2 players on the team are non-white (which I believe they are), they are completely representative of the population. What’s the problem?!

MsFrenchie · 28/07/2022 14:12

JoanWilderbeast · 27/07/2022 20:02

Must admit it crossed my mind as a Londoner why it wasn't a more diverse representation player wise as per the men's team, but I wouldn't automatically jump to racism as a default as I'm sure it's more nuanced than that.

Thé men’s team has far more black players than demographics would predict. Why is this to be celebrated but a women’s team which more accurately matches the UK population should be questioned?

Naunet · 28/07/2022 14:37

FrippEnos · 27/07/2022 20:09

There are three women that are from ethnic minorities in the team currently.

Personally I think that its disgusting that it is being brought up at a time when we should be supporting the team and not bringing them down.

There are also various incentives in place which people would know about if they actually knew anything about women's football instead of just wanting to knock the team.

86% of the Uk is white, so that seems like reasonably fair representation.

gatehouseoffleet · 28/07/2022 14:42

So had Dina Asher Smith not pulled up in the sprint relay at the World Athletics Championships last week and our team had won a medal, would people have wondered why the team had no white faces?

Surely what matters is that you choose the best. Our heptathletes tend to be mixed race; our shorter sprinters tend to be mixed race though there are exceptions like Richard Kilty and Beth Dobbin (400m more mixed); our footballers are (currently) more white (although the men are mixed).

Anyway if people want more non-white female football players they need to set up the womens' teams in areas where the population is less white. Most teams are "mixed" which means boys after the age of about 8.

gatehouseoffleet · 28/07/2022 14:46

dm1818 · 27/07/2022 23:35

imagine if someone said "there are now questions about why there are less opportunities for women to get into football than men. Jesus can't we just enjoy men playing instead of bringing gender into everything" do you realize how ridiculous you sound..

Well there were and are far fewer opportunities for girls and women to play football. Not just in the UK - I was surprised to see that the West German football authorities banned women for a time as well!

Not a football fan and don't really care about the outcome on Sunday, but glad to see two womens' teams who were banned for years for not having penises having made the final.