C4 news England Women's Team

[saveforthat]

There are now questions about why there are no black players in the team or subs. Jesus can't we just enjoy women doing well instead of bringing race into everything.

I watched the Alex Scott documentary recently with my DD who is a footballer and a football fan, and she did look into this (albeit briefly). My menopausal brain has the memory of a sieve but I do remember Alex interviewing an ex player, who was black, and I think that she cited racism as a big part of her experience and fears about receiving racist abuse from the public (online), I think. Apologies if I have misremembered but it was an interesting documentary and is still on iplayer I think. It brought back memories of the men's Euros and those poor black players who missed penalties and the outpouring of racist abuse they received. I'm sure that awareness of this must impact upon young girls wanting to become professional footballers which is both heartbreaking and shocking (depressingly perhaps less shocking to black people though I suspect).

A lot of sports are for white rich privileged kids. Some people don't even have a back garden to kick a ball in while others huge gardens, green safe places nearby and private schools with excellent facilities and sports ethos. Family has money and resources to ferry the children back and forth to sports clubs and all their kits and expenses. It's generational, too as you find mummy and daddy are sporty middleclass sorts, too.

Brefugee

What is daft is holding different countries to different standards then talking about "culture".

Cultures can be and need to be changed. Especially if you want sport for all.

I'm pretty sure that most of the England players aren't from traditionally "privileged" backgrounds, and I think that football, traditionally has been a sport that has drawn talent from across the socio-economic spectrum (probably less elite as there has been snobbishness around football). Girls football has come on massively from our experience, when my DD started playing 10 years ago there were very few girls teams and her club (and others that they played matches against) often didn't have enough to play 7 aside. Now, her club as over 60 girls ranging in ages from 4 - 16 which is fantastic. We are in a very mixed economic area, but a very monocultural (ie white) one.

It is a question that should be asked. If young black women don't have access to playing fields and clubs because of discrimination, if cost is a barrier (black women are more likely to be single mothers than some other ethnicities), or if there is another cause, then it should be asked. One thing I read was that the location of club training grounds may be difficult to access for some.

The racism may be a long time before a woman could become an elite player.

IME the girls playing football now at grassroots are girls who aren't afraid to buck the trend.

'Football is for boys' is less prevalent than it was in my day but still worthy of girls and women being stereotyped as 'boyish/blokey' .I wonder how much it influences girls who may have families who don't want girls to portray that image.

Wearing shorts and a T shirt may be a issue for some girls from ethnic minority backgrounds.

At least this tournament has shown women's football in a positive light and may encourage girls and women to take it up.
I am a player in my 50s playing grassroots with girls of 16 up. They don't know how lucky they are, at their age I couldn't play as there wasn't a team.

I think this is very likely

There have been a couple of successful England players; Alex Scott and Lianne Sanderson are two that immediately spring to mind. I do think this probably comes down to grass roots opportunities and more priveliged girls playing competitive football to elite level.

What is daft is holding different countries to different standards then talking about "culture".

British? Talking about how other countries should conform to your ideas of culture? get in the sea. Concentrate on your own country (which ever it is) and leave the others to their own ideas.

Brefugee

So diversity should only be seen in "British?" teams?

Concentrate on your own country (which ever it is) and leave the others to their own ideas.

You either want football to be diverse and open to all or your don't.
This concentrate on your own country is rubbish especially when the other team in the final is equally as white.

And yet there are more ethnic minority players in the team than demographics would suggest.

It’s almost as though people are creating a narrative to explain a lie.

Community sports initiatives are usually in areas of deprivation. It's usually poorer kids living in leafy areas who are not targeted for such opportunities. Whilst we all know racism is still a major issue, poor kids of all backgrounds miss out on opportunities their wealthier counterparts enjoy purely down to money. Add sexism into the mix and girls will miss out.
Just read the comments on the Match of the Day Facebook page. Plenty of misogynistic twats, many of whom have daughters, how will they access football when they know their fathers think girls football is pathetic.

Bend it like Beckham springs to mind.

I've been involved in building female participation for years and this is correct. It's extremely complex. Lots of Muslim Asian girls play but not at mainstream clubs. All elite sports are dominated by those with more cash.

I agree. Loads of black players in WSL. But the mgr pics the final team. Based of trying to win

Look i am fine if we want to ask for more diversity, and i am fine with picking the best players for the team.

Where i am not fine is "well, look at X country, they're equally as / more shit than we are". Especially coming from supporters of England. You want everyone to adhere to your ideals of diversity? get out of here. As i said there are questions to be asked about the German team - better leave that to the Germans though, eh? (I feel quite fine criticising the English team structure, being English, and also the German team structure, being German. I wouldn't get on about the Swedes or anyone else though outside of a vague comment about how they handle diversity in their country either as a benchmark or as a method to avoid)

But if we were to look at Germany, they should in theory have at least a couple of players who have a "migration background" from Turkey since that is the largest ethnic group here after white Germans.

Well done England!!!!

to repeat

Well done England

:)

I've never seen a black woman or man sailing. There is definitely a reason but it's possibly more to do with exposure to that sport within their own cultural class. There's a lot that needs to change . . .

I was just about to say that, statistics are of course quite a blunt instrument but in what way is the current team either over or under represented in terms of ethnicity?

And in any case the make up of any team, particularly one as fast moving and large as a football team will change over time.

Women are always held to a higher standard than men, we know this so sadly it's not a surprise. The underfunding, historical devaluing of women's sports does play a part I suspect as well as cultural issues- but fuck me they couldn't just say we are doing well (as this was said before we won wasn't it), isn't this a great opportunity to look at widening participation for all in women's sports. Womens football has not attracted the same investment or attention as men's, and those now in the final will have spent a tonne of time and their own/families money into training and playing up the ranks; any change takes time to filter through. I think it's shirty for them to pass comment at this point to try and detract from their achievements. And that's not denying or downplaying the chance there is a reason.

Incredible!

At a time when the England womens team have finally ended a wait for a major trophy since 1966...

....MN focuses on the team make up!

You are doing the work of all the misogynistic men out there and they need no excuse.

Fantastic brilliant result, sooooooo well deserved! and against the mens team nemesis :)

Has anyone ever undermined the mens team to ask why white boys are so under represented in the England squad, particularly at a time when they're celebrating a win (not that often)

Being chanel 4th I'm amazed they didn't question the absence of trans players