Is this hoarding? Doesn't seem as severe?

[EllaPercy]

Evening all. Name change as could be outing to the person talked about in the thread.

When does being sentimental turn into being a hoarder?

I've offended my cousin today but I do think she's more than sentimental.

Moving house and not had many viewings so estate agent said it's because the house is too cluttered and to clear out and take more photos.

So I went to help as I'm quite the opposite - she says too I'm ruthless as I don't keep much.

She's the opposite. Still has her childhood toys. All her school books. All her DC baby clothes and toys.

Which to me is hoarding.

But that's the row - as it's not like on TV where there is filth 5ft deep. Which I did stress.

There isn't a clear surface in the place. But it isn't a dirty home.

But I do think it's not healthy to not part with anything.

Is there a name for it other than hoarding? It is generally things with sentimental value that she has. But there's just SO MUCH of if.

Oh, and we had over 100 coffee mugs as an example, most never saw use, but he kept on buying.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2013/11/20/is-this-the-most-cluttered-home-in-britain-4193928/amp/

It's like some of the people on that programme with Stacey Solomon. Houses full to absolute bursting because people attach sentiment to EVERYTHING. Everything is a "treasured possession". They have kept every birthday card, every game/toy their child ever had, every drawing and every baby outfit, every letter from the GP, every book and so on and so on.

Most people will keep a very small percentage of truly special stuff. Not a stub of a pencil you bought in Brighton when you were 7, or a postcard Aunty Gladys sent from Tenerife in 2001. Most of us don't have 100 room mansions to accommodate every item we've ever owned. So yes it's a problem.

And @FelicityBeedle there is a whole spectrum between "minimalism" and crowded shelves along every wall.

My parents are like this. Not 5 duvet sets, but 20. Not one teapot, 5 of them. Masses of knick-knacks covering every surface and every spare drawer, often duplicates in different colours. Wardrobes groaning with clothes not worn in decades. Hundreds of books not read, or ever intended to be read. When they moved house recently they pretty much needed a skip to empty out the attic, as it had every school book, game etc from me and my siblings' childhood.

Not quite hoarding, as they are extremely neat and tidy, and have space for everything (though at the expense of any visitors, who have no wardrobe or drawer space in the spare bedrooms) but comes close in my opinion.

What does it matter? It doesn't sound like a problem apart from the house selling. That's time limited and stuff can go in the attic or storage for a few months then back out.

I wouldn't call it hoarding, especially not to someone's face unless they've asked.

DP is a horder though he denies it. Luckily with have a big house with plenty of storage - but really who needs their bank statements AND cheque stubs from early 1980s? He says you never know He keeps them all tidily in a large plastic box along with all the other paperwork from that era. I did eventually persuade him that maybe we could live without the receipts he kept for VAT purposes though which freed up a certain amount of space. We occasionally have extra shelves built but we're running out of recesses and I'm eyeing up the hallway. We've also got a lot of his childhood books - if anyone has use for scouting manuals from the 1970s and a BBC handbook from the mid 1980s or best yet a copy of Modern Caravan from July 1964 please apply below not that he'll let them go of course because you never know

I think it runs in his family though given I've got some of his mother's old school books and school magazines (which are actually quite interesting at this stage) - she's now 93!!

We also have a very large number of cables with no defined use that may be useful and many many many gadgets of varying and dubious use

Fortunately, I'm slightly better t getting rid of things.

I love him very much so I suppose I've got a certain affection for his "stuff"

OP let your cousin get on with it.
When she can't sale her house (due to the clutter ) say nothing.

You can't help others if they don't see the problem.

She will need to pack it up when moving anyway so best to box up as much of the personal items now so she can stage the house for selling.

I'm not surprised she was offended. You've armchair diagnosed her with a mental health issue.

Usually, to meet the criteria for diagnosis for a mental health issue, the issue would have to have a negative impact on the individual's life or a negative impact on those close to them eg it is making her unhappy, her home is dirty or unsafe, it is damaging her relationships, she is spending money she can't afford on buying things. It doesn't sound like that is the case here, especially as you said that most of this stuff is on display (ie she isn't just keeping it for the sake of keeping it, she enjoys looking at them). Finding it difficult to sell her home because it has more stuff jammed in than most people like wouldn''t meet the criteria for being a negative impact on her life any more than making it hard to sell your house by choosing to paint your house in bright colours or decorating it in a gothic or 50s theme.

I had about 50 mugs for around 20 years when I had the space for them. They gave me joy when I opened the cupboard and remembered the story behind each one - the mug I bought in Woolworths the first day of boarding school, college mugs, my first work mug with the name of my employer, mugs painted by my DC, mugs I bought for my first home, the one that had a picture that looked like my late cat, mugs to match my dinner/tea service etc. Once in while, it was useful having 50 mugs eg big house parties. Now I have 6 mugs, all plain white. I'm not a hoarder. It's just the benefits of the 50 mugs outweighed the negatives, now they don't, so I got rid of them.

I think people assume that hoarding always means a house piled with rubbish and mess - but it doesn't always mean that. Some hoarders basically keep everything because they can't throw anything away, even things like empty tins or old newspapers.

But there is definitely a lower level, more selective hoarding too, where people are obsessive collectors of certain things or very indiscriminate about what has sentimental value. And of course, if they're still managing to keep everything tidy and under control (eg 100 teddies neatly lined up on shelves is very different to random teddies lying on the floor or stuffed behind radiators or piled on the bed so that it can't be slept in) then it obviously doesn't cause them a problem day to day and it can be put down to personal taste. But of course, there will be odd times like this (selling a house, having to clear space for a home office or make room for a new baby or something) when it will make life difficult.

To be honest, the fact that your cousin got upset when you had the conversation with her suggests to me that she probably does have a problem and doesn't want to admit that to herself.

Its 'attachment issues' (states the obvious 😊)... has she had a lot of loss in the past, or was she very poor / deprived (in any way) as a child. I relate completely. It's scary to be challenged, so she's defensive - tread gently.

Does she have DC? The reason I ask is when we cleared mum and dad's house after their deaths in 2020 it took 3 skips loads just to clear random stuff they had kept. My mum was the worst for "stuff", but dad had over 100 files of paper work that he never threw away. Me and my sisters and all of our adult DC have now pledged to de-clutter as the stress involved was off the scale. Maybe point this out to your friend that one day her DC will have to deal with the result of all that clutter and it's something they really will not thank her for.

I have hoarderish tendencies and so does one of my parents. It sounds hoarderish to me. If she wants to sell her house she should rent a storage unit (I did this and it paid off so well in terms of the photos, buyer interest and a very quick sale) presumably all her stuff will need to go into boxes when she moves anyway. A home stager could also be a really good investment.

My late husband was the same-the amount of stuff he kept "just in case" was unbelievable. He always complained we had too much stuff, but most of it was his!
I've spent the the last 6 months since I lost him clearing out.

The London Fire Brigade have a 'clutter/hoarding rating'. If you google this, it gives you an idea of whether the level of clutter is concerning or not.

It's hoarding but not to the extreme. She either wants to sell her house or she doesn't. If she does, she'll need to get rid of clutter. Nobody wants to look round a place and see it full of stuff.

I know someone of 70 who has kept the baby teeth of her sons (in their 40s) and also the teeth of her DOG.

I accuse DH of hoarding - his DF was in the forces and they moved every couple of years. I put it down to that.

... and I agree with @loislovesstewie that it increases my anxiety.

If it is not detrimental to her quality of life then you are just being judgemental. It doesn't sound like it is causing her any problems.

She simply lives in a different way to you and values different things. She doesn't need a label from you, I'm not surprised she was offended.

Well as someone who has gone to a fair few group therapy sessions, we discuss this.

If you have a mansion and keeper every thing you ever owned are you a hoarder? If you have room to neatly pack it away?

I think your a hoarder if your shit impacts on your quality of life or the life of others around you.

If you have a normal family house and you never part with anything then surely that impacts on your quality of life and that of your family.

I dont have things on every surface and I dont walk over things but I'm still a hoarder. If she cant accept it then you cant help or change it.

You dont have to br documentary worthy to be a hoarder.

I was going to say something similar to this. We had to clear my parents attic after they had both passed in 2020. We didn't hire a skip, but it took many, many trips to the dump. I felt bad for getting rid of a lot of it, but it was serving no purpose. My parents were elderly and grew up in the war and my Mum in particular hated to throw things away. She had tablecloths from the 1920's that she still used (they made them to last in those days), and kept other tablecloths for best. We ended up donating or throwing them all out.

It is detrimental to her quality of life though if she is trying to sell her house, but those viewing can't see enough of 'the house' as opposed to her stuff. I don't know why she wants/needs to move, but her wishes/needs won't be met in this scenario. At the very least, she might have to accept a lower offer, as no-one can view the house properly.

BTW, if anyone wants a record deck, I have at least 8 to sell!

I think it's hoarding. The house doesn't need to be unclean to be a hoarder.

I only keep really important things if they are practical to store, and take photos of things that aren't practical.