To think it’s ridiculous that given the NHS recruitment crisis my Dd has been told she can’t do the new T level in nursing due to a lack of placement places.

[Mudlark3r2]

She has the course requirements and then some and has been bumped onto a BTec which the government are phasing out.😵‍💫

Can this government organise anything properly?

Depends on her learning style. A levels aren’t the best way for everyone.

My daughter is 1 year into the T levels with a view to training as a paediatric nurse.

It is poorly run, inconsistent and she has had 2 weeks placement in a home for people with extra needs.

I wish she had done the btec level 3 or a levels.

I’m doing mine through the open uni employer sponsored and it’s an issue across the board. My ward placements have all been self led pretty much and you really need to go and insert yourself into situations to learn, the nurses are so busy their first thought isn’t always for the student. Thankfully I’ve worked i healthcare a long time so can pretty much work the ward and keep on top of stuff albeit not always seeing the stuff I should be, for example one shift last week was with an agency nurse so I was left to my own devices pretty much. We also routinely get counted in the numbers which we shouldn’t be, bed managers come and say they won’t bother sending another HCA because I’m there, I’ve already told them it isn’t acceptable.

I feel for the young students coming from the brick uni with no experience as they are often just left to the HCAs and often don’t have the skills yet to speak up for themselves

Oh my next placement is in a nursing home, I use the term loosely as it isn’t nurse run and the district nurses come in to do all the nurse stuff, I personally feel this is a bit unsuitable for a second year considering the amount of skills I need signed off by the end of third year and I’m simply not going to get it there but it’s the shortage of placements.

Can this government organise anything properly?

No. Twelve years of Conservative government has destroyed the UK. I'm sorry that your daughter, and all our children are going to have to deal with the fallout of their arrogance, incompetence and corruption @Mudlark3r2.

If she does do the Btech even if they are discontinued the Government's will continue funding students part way to though their course and completed courses will still be recognised.
But would it be better for her to do A levels rather than a Btech and then a nursing degree?

I'm a third year stn and some of our cohort had to do COVID testing last year as there wasn't enough placements. I don't see how they are going to get T level placements when student nurses can't get them? Most healthcare settings only accept 18 year olds for insurance purposes.

Do you think BTecs will still be valued if it’s being phased out? Gov has been quite scathing of them.

T-levels are being introduced in England only. For the rest of the UK, Btecs (available across the UK), NVQs (available in England, Wales and Northern Ireland) and other vocational courses like Scottish Vocational Qualifications (SVQs) will continue to apply.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-51489571

The Universities have dealt with Btec for years - and will through equivalent qualification continue to deal with them from rest of UK for years to come.

They won't cut funding if she's already started on the course either.

T-levels are much more unknown and the roll out isn't without problems - so talk to the college but BTecs will still be valued.

This isn't true you only need to scrape 40 percent to pass apart from the safe medicate. Many people on my course aren't academic and they still passed. They just did a resit.

This is a blessing in disguise. The established, well respected BTEC (the one the Gov wants to de-fund in two years ) is a much better qualification. Get her on that.

Loads of colleges, universities, sector lobby groups etc are vehemently opposed to the defunding of the BTECs. T levels as you have discovered don't have the employer support they need. I hope and suspect that in a few years T levels will drop by the wayside and BTECs quietly not defunded.

The placements requirements are a big issue for T levels. It was meant to be designed with what employers wanted: they wanted work ready young people. I think they should’ve been told that’s not possible and everyone learns a lot during real work,

The work placements will end up being useless and not fit for purpose. BTECs are great courses and can lead to uni. No idea why the govt are intent on getting rid.

Of course there is a hard academic side and rightly so, we as nurse now are being expected to do more and more of what doctors used to do and we need to be able
to give rationales for every decision we make.

I have seen people saying that it should all be dropped back, no need for entry requirements to back to ward learning and no academic side but I wouldn’t like a nurse looking after me who couldn’t work out what medication I was meant to have, I’m not fantastic at maths but when you’re working with syringe drivers and things that could potential harm or kill someone you need to be competent

I hope this is the case and they disappear.
BTECs can give a lovely step by step from pre gcse to HE level.

I've just finished having a healthcare student with me for 3 months which I chose to do voluntarily.

My employer has received a payment for having the student. I've received nothing. I've worked unpaid extra time to fit in student mentoring sessions, tutorials, meetings with the course tutors and to allow for the slower pace of work when a student is learning skills. All on top of my existing caseload.

I know more placements are needed but I am knackered.

Exactly this. Supervising a placement if done properly needs time.

They were struggling for placements when I did my Nursing degree years back. You have to have a trained mentor to be able to assess you on your skills. There are only so many of those to go around. Ime, nurses avoid doing the training because it is one extra thing to add to their day. They don't get given any extra time to train and assess their students. Even though you can be supervised by any member of staff your mentor still has to have time to sign off your skills and it was hard enough to find time when I did it. Realistically in the community a nurse can only take one student with them. But I agree with you something needs to change. One idea is nursing lecturers to be able to come onto wards to assess students on their skills, even to come into community offices. I agree also that especially the youngest students need quite a lot of support. As a mature student I was more able to just get on with it, but of course still needed to get my skills signed off.

She can't do bank nursing, but could to bank health care assistant. She will get some very basic training and also lots of experience but she won't need to be supervised beyond first few shifts. The point is if she is getting training there needs to be someone to do the training.

I don't know anything about this new T level, but Al levels and bank HCA work is fine for preparing you for the nursing degree. Being a degree it requires a lot of academics which A levels will prepare her for. At least when I did the degree there was a problem with some students not being up to scratch with their English, Maths and Science and really struggling.

Oh and don't know if anyone has answered this but HCAs do jobs like personal care, making/cleaning beds and bed area, doing care rounds and taking observations - then it will depend on the nature of the ward as to what other duties they have.

There are also more students because they places are now calculated by the uni and not ‘ordered’ by the CCG. Now uni’s can charge fees for nursing it’s a free for all.

one branch of nursing (at the uni where I work) has always had a sept intake of 14-24 students. Never ever more than 24. It went up to 80 the first yr they charged fees. It’s now sat at 130.

there were not enough mentors when there were 24 students.

Nursing is about all sorts of things. One of those is academia. We need nurse researchers for example, we need nursing lecturers. You'll do her no favours by presenting the nursing degree as a practical course. She will be expected to pass drug calculations with 100% and to complete a dissertation in 3rd year.

I know, it was obvious this was only going to make the mentor situation worse. The government billed it as training more nurses, hoping that noone realised it would be giving nurses worse training and that universities wouldn't be looking to enrol only the best students to make excellent nurses.

It's not difficult to get on the course now trusts don't set the number of places! It used to be hard to get onto.

Many students either left the course or were asked to leave at my Uni. The pressure of having to complete a resubmission alongside the current assignments and exam revision is a lot. Of course if you can't even scrape a pass the 2nd time you are asked to leave. And of course there are those that can't get 100% on their drug calculations. Other people may want to get a good degree not just scrape through! It will be harder if they want to do post-grad studies if they struggled with under graduate.

A levels and work experience in eg a care home will easily get her onto a nursing course. I doubt courses are full, there will be a lot of movement when GCSE results come out. My son held two sixth form college offers open until the day he had to enrol!

She doesn't need a T level or a BTEC. But a BTEC will be fine - it's not considered sub-par by anyone other than whoever was education secretary at the time. They won't be recruiting nurses!

It also keeps her options open in case she changes her mind about nursing and eg wants to do physiotherapy or radiology or something else allied instead.