To think it’s ridiculous that given the NHS recruitment crisis my Dd has been told she can’t do the new T level in nursing due to a lack of placement places.

[Mudlark3r2]

She has the course requirements and then some and has been bumped onto a BTec which the government are phasing out.😵‍💫

Can this government organise anything properly?

The government knows bugger all about what prepares you for nursing so I would be highly sceptical about taking their advice! There is a whole political agenda behind T levels. As a nurse and someone who spent 6 years teaching nursing in a RG university I think A levels are the best option although the BTec can be very good. The advantage of A levels is it gives more flexibility if she changes her mind and also better prepares them for the academic rigour of the degree.

I love being a nurse and it is a privilege to do the job, but I will be honest, I would be wary of recommending it as a career right now. I have never, in over 20 years as a nurse and nearly 30 years in total in health and social care, seen things as bad as they are now. Keeping her option open with A levels I think could be very wise.

Most sixth forms/further education colleges allow changes or new applications on results day and/or up to the start of the course (especially further education colleges) so it should not be too late if she wanted to change.

I had no idea there was a T level in nursing……will people be qualified nurses after this? I assume not?

it’s the same with degree courses and apprenticeships - of course there needs to be suitable placement experience inc having a practice supervisor. It can’t be a free for all otherwise you run the risk of having six students every shift and only three nurses and they’re not adequately supervised. Some universities already do “virtual” placements because they don’t have enough placement capacity.

i guess the hope is gradually things change, students qualify and then there’s more people to look after the next students. In reality that doesn’t happen because people are leaving as fast as new people are starting. The nhs (and govt)needs to focus on retention rather than chucking money at recruitment and training.

Totally agree.

She can sit around mopping that she can’t folllow her preferred route or she can be proactive and sign up for A Levels and be on the nursing degree in two years. When she gets into the world of work she will likely need to do things she doesn’t like to get to where she wants to be.

Honestly she is a million times better off on on the BTEC. The first year of the T level roll out has been a complete disaster. Inaccurate exams, poor assessments and a real struggle to get meaningful placements. The BTEC funding will not withdraw while she is on the course and realistically not for years after that. I am not in H&SC but a similar voc role and our T level has had the start date moved back by another year as it is so poorly prepared. Honestly this is a blessing in disguise.

Maybe start a thread asking nurses how they got into their job as there are loads of different routes and your daughter might find one that appeals to her.

I used to teach on BTECs and now teach in Uni. I would prefer the BTEC route to T level if it was my daughter. The staff in college are used to it. The universities know the qualification and it will continue to be accepted for quite some time. Better that than some qualification that hasn't been thought through!

Personally I would advise her to do something else.

The way I see it she has a few options:
1 - do the btec
2 - do a as levels or something equivalent instead
3 - defer and work for a year and do the t level course next year

Also if the course is so new the likelihood of it being a shambles is higher. I’d go for the btec course, it’s established and well thought of. She can do some bank hca work to get experience which will help with the degree interview.

I love being a nurse and it is a privilege to do the job, but I will be honest, I would be wary of recommending it as a career right now. I have never, in over 20 years as a nurse and nearly 30 years in total in health and social care, seen things as bad as they are now.

I never thought I would write something like that, it makes me so sad I could cry. I despise this bloody government for what they have done to the NHS and its incredible, hard working and dedicated staff over the past decade.

IgnoranceIsStrength

That is an interesting point and a good way of thinking about it. Had thought Tlevel might prepare better for a nursing degree but guess btec has been entry qualification for a while. Do you think BTecs will still be valued if it’s being phased out? Gov has been quite scathing of them.

The government are scathing of anything they didn't think up themselves!

BTECs have worked well for years!

But doing the t level doesn't guarantee a space on a nursing course, and if she doesn't want to do a levels because they are academic she will struggle on the nursing course.

We need nurses with a strong foundation in academia as they won't survive the degree otherwise.

Getting enough placements affects ALL T-levels. In some areas, the nursing T levels seems have a shot at being able to run, but it does depend on area.
Supervision requirements are different in an education setting because educational quality checks need to be satisfied. It’s a different level of supervision.

OP - by all means, get angry and write your MP with this information, but move past it.

If your daughter takes a BTEC she should be funded for the duration.

If she goes down the A level routes, ensure she volunteers in a health care setting.

The government is scathing but equally powerless and haven't actually made the major changes they stated they would in the last 4 years. Instead just lots of reports and papers on it. The system is just not set up for all current BTEC students to move to T levels, it isn't set up for even 10% of the existing cohorts to move to T levels mainly due to the placements. Universities will happily continue to accept the BTEC as an entry route where as they are actually quite suspicious of the T level so it will not affect her progression chances at all. Hope this helps

Regardless of her route I would encourage her to do some HCA work first or before she gets too far down the road to get a feel for what nursing is actually like.

I am not shocked at the lack of placements, we are over run with students, I often have students shadowing me for the day as a band 3 as there are no qualified staff for them to work with. Admittedly my job is quite different and they do get something out of it, but it is mostly done due to lack of registered staff for them to work with.

Ggu

Many don’t stay in nursing after a nursing degree. With no practical experience before this is more likely to happen hence T levels being introduced. Many do nursing degrees from btec.

We need nurses with a strong foundation in academia as they won't survive the degree otherwise.

Not really true. I couldn't hack A Levels. Just wasn't suited to me. However, I did fine on my Access to Nursing course. Then did functional skills maths on top (it'll depend which uni you're after as some do accept that, some don't)

The actual degree was okay. I put a lot of it to practice in placement. Very hands on. I got a 2:1. Been qualified 18 months now

OP, your daughter can just do the BTEC. It will be accepted for a good while yet. Universities are familiar with it

Good luck to her x

They don't stay in nursing because of the poor working conditions, not because they didn't have practical experience before the nursing degree.

A 3 year degree requires 2300 practice hours - this weeds out those that discover they don't want to do the practical aspect of nursing.

Why will she struggle on a nursing degree with a btec? Doing A levels she’s not interested in and are a world away from nursing is nuts. Just because she’s doing a more practical course doesn’t mean she’s dim. She has the GCSEs for Alevels but doesn’t want to do them.

Ggu

Bit late once you are on the degree. Waste of a place for somebody who has practical experience and knows they can hack it.

Doctors are being told the same.

People is the DFE know very little about vocational qualifications or what makes them work. Very few policy staff will know much about vocational education and training. They are academics with ideas but not a clue how to put them into practice - hence the good idea of placements being a key part of T levels but no knowledge or understanding of how that could be put into practice.
OP you need to listen to what people on this thread are telling you and stop believing that the BTEC is 'sub-par'.

Do you think BTecs will still be valued if it’s being phased out? Gov has been quite scathing of them.

Because the government put quite a lot of money into developing T-levels, vocational qualifications that they want to have the same perceived status as A-levels, they need them to be a success. It’s their flagship vocational program.

Unfortunately due to teething issues, the workload involved in colleges setting up new courses, and the huge problems setting up work placements, the only way the govt can ensure the rapid adoption of T-levels so that they don’t fail, is to remove the alternatives. It’s not because the alternatives are crap.

I too would say do the BTEC.

It is well known and well respected, the teachers know how to teach it so she probably has more chance of getting Distinctions than with the new T levels.

I would much rather be one of the last years of an old qualification than the first year of a new one.

tbh It was obvious from the start that T levels across the board would probably struggle with the work placement aspect. Nice idea in theory but a nightmare from a practical point of view.

(2 DDs with/doing vocational qualifications.)

I can start that. I did a degree in Social Studies (very broad - sociology, politics, psychology, feminist studies, race and education, counselling, etc). I then decided I'd like to be a nurse.

I got a job in a care home for the 'elderly and mentally infirm' - a locked environment for patient safety. I got a wide range of experience including juggling duties. We would be expected to manage the laundry as well as care for the clients in one part of the house, cook breakfast or dinner for two floors of clients if assigned kitchen duties, or be key holder in another section. It was a complete eye opener, to be honest.

Then I moved on to a surgical hospital ward during the second year of my degree. From there I decided that I would do the post-graduate accelerated diploma in nursing (2 year course).

My previous experience made my placements so much easier. Many of my fellow students had never set foot in a hospital for work. They had to learn how to make beds, how to wash someone who couldn't get out of bed, how to change sheets while someone is in bed, how to juggle the needs of 6 or 8 patients, etc., I knew all that, so could focus on the more technical skills I needed to acquire.