To think the cost of living crisis isn't really a "crisis" for most people?

[buzzheath]

Not meant to be inflammatory at all. I'm well aware of the hardships that some people and families will face. But for the majority of people in the UK, will it really be a "crisis"? Isn't around half of the population middle class?

I second this.

I clearly touched a nerve with a few people, so looking at the numbers comparing benefits for people with children Vs a "good" salary, better than 4 out of 5 people in the country.

80th percentile salary for tax year 2019 to 20 is £43,700 (Ref 1). After tax this is gives a monthly take home of £2,779 a month (ref 2)

If you are a single parent, 2 children in rented accommodation working 16 hours a week you earn £659 a month in wages and get £1,929 in benefits (ref 3) - £2,588 in total

So the difference between being in the top 20% of earners and being a minimum wage earner with two children is only about £200 a month. It's not insignificant, but it is manageable with care.

Ref 1 www.gov.uk/government/statistics/percentile-points-from-1-to-99-for-total-income-before-and-after-tax#full-publication-update-history

Ref 2 www.moneysavingexpert.com/tax-calculator/

Ref 3 - www.entitledto.co.uk/benefits-calculator/Results/ComprehensiveCalc?cid=8df3cd03-81de-4528-a277-38905180b0b3&paymentPeriod=Monthly&calcScenario=UniversalCredit

@dianthus101 - it was just a turn of phrase.

You are right, all electricity customers are paying an equal share of the total bill. The pain (well, that bit of it) is being spread equally rather than borne by those who were unfortunate enough to have their supplier collapse under them.

The fact it is being put on the standing charge means that the super-rich are making the same contribution as you are. Some would say that’s unfair.

Did you add in child benefit to the working person's income?

@bellac11 , I didn't include child benefit. I've just run the benefit calculator for the 80th percentile worker. All they get is child benefit at around £160 a month.

That's a monthly difference of about £360 or 13% more take home pay for the person earning £43,700 pa compared with the person earning £7,900 pa.

Yes I think thats what I was getting at, its about the difference in income being accurate. Its 360 rather than 200.#

But as you say thats on an income of around a fifth? of the 80th percentile worker.

I dont think it has fully kicked in yet!
in the last 6 months, my gas and electric has gone up £140, fixed rate ended on mortgage, so that has gone up £100, monthly petrol spend has gone up by £20 if not more, havent really worked out food increases etc and I am self-employed in a business that was shut for most of 2 years and is rebuilding very slowly due to people having less disposable income, so i am earning less than i was pre the first lockdown...so just those 3 bills have increased out goings by over £3000 a year, for many people who were only just getting by, thats enough to push then over the poverty line.
I am lucky that my partner is in a line of work that has not been affected, and has had a promotion in that time, and also that my daughter finishes nursery this month, which saves us a lot!
So for us, things will probably be about the same, however before all this, things should have been due to get more comfortable, with some more fun money and savings, instead we will have to continue being careful, especially when gas and electric hikes again in October. I really feel for those for whom it is gonna cause major money worries

I agree, there was another thread there tonight saying the electricity prices have tripled in a year.

It takes time for things to sink in, but once the tide starts going out, it can all happen very quickly (I’m my very limited experience of recessions)

Depends where you live also. Where I live the person on benefits would get £780/month less as housing is generally cheaper. Also lots of families have 2 working adults and if you look at centiles for household income then to hit 80% you need about £5,300 net income a month for a 2 adult/2 child family.

Meh, I’m going on holiday although I’m worried about future massive bills. I don’t drink, we don’t go out much socially, we’re caring for lovely, lovely MIL (92) and that is not going to get any easier in the coming months (maybe years). We’re getting away while we still can really. A lot of people might be thinking the same.

And this is the folly of means testing. Benefit cut off points leave people struggling because they miss the thresholds - sometimes by only a few pounds but they struggle nevertheless. It’s expensive to administer, it screens out people genuinely in need and it doesn’t work. Beware of politicians who advocate for more of it.

A lot of holidays have been delayed from a couple of years ago - so yea people are going rather than lose their money.

That’s likely to change, and not an indicator for the upcoming crisis.

Also those of us that lived through the eighties and survived - yes we were poor and cold and hungry! But we got there .

Not very one will be so lucky.

Here we go.
Only on Mumsnet
Just like the eternal roast chicken and going for a spa day when your husband annoys you
🙄

Good for you! Try living in the countryside shipping teen kids in and out of town, commuting to work etc. etc. for a lot of people it’s a juggle between living in town or cheaper areas in the outskirts as it’s getting more and more difficult for people not to have subsidized accommodation.
Private rental situations are increasing year after year. I work in a good job with colleagues who are struggling just to feed their kids and I’m in a perceived good profession.
You come across as being very naive.

A lot of holidays have been delayed from a couple of years ago - so yea people are going rather than lose their money.
That’s likely to change, and not an indicator for the upcoming crisis.

Yeah, holidays are a really daft way of assessing this situation. For one thing nobody is counting all the people who aren't going.

But for those who are, there are people taking holidays that were booked and at least partially paid for as far back as 2019. Might as well have been a lifetime ago.

I'm going to be really honest here(and I'm not a Tory) but having just come back from Denmark and reading the stuff about utilities - I banged a direct debit in with Octopus for gas and electric for £300 a month- after 2 months thought I would read meter's just to see how it was going and am quite suprised to see it's worked out about £145 a month (for both) - there are only 2 of us but it's biggish 4 bed 80s house and I don't scrimp- I tumble dry x2 every Saturday for instance. Admittedly we have only had heating on 2 or 3 times in Late May- and I've used my air fryer a lot- but it's not nearly as bad as I expected. One thing I realised was that at our old house we had never set the hot water just to come on 3 times a day for an hour and a half- it was just 'on' . My H works from home and we have a lot of appliances, plus have been using fan in bedroom all night some days and ge used air conditioner in his office a couple of times for half an hour a time . I'm not doubting others bills, but am mystified - can only wonder if it's maybe 5 people having multiple showers a day and having hot water all the time etc.

It’ll be the heating.

This month, our gas is providing hot water only - around 110 kWh used. In January, with the central heating on, it was over 1,800 kWh.

An extra 1,700 kWh at 7.5p (current SVR for gas) = £127.50 extra.
At 12p/kWh (guesstimate SVR from October) = £204 extra

That’s on my usage. We are also 2 people in a biggish 4-bed, but it’s new build and energy efficient. I don’t scrimp, but I have taken steps to reduce usage. So my prediction is that your actual cost next January will be a lot more than £145 + £204.

With a level DD all year round, you build up credit in the summer and use it up over the winter. If your DD now was only just covering your usage, you would be storing up trouble. Whether your £300 DD will be enough to see you over the winter - bearing in mind you will receive £400 credit from the Government between October and March - I can’t be sure, but I’m inclined to think not.

£300/month = £3,600/year, and that is now the price cap prediction for the mythical TYPICAL household usage of 12,000 kWh gas and 2,900 kWh electricity. I rather suspect yours will be higher than that.

So you might need to pay £400/month, or £500/month, who knows. If you can do that, and are happy to do that, fair enough. If that would be an issue, or if, you know, you have grasped that the severe heat we had last week was a result of climate change, and that reducing CO2 emissions is urgent, then there are lots of things you can do to reduce your usage (without skimping on comfort.)

Make sure all your light bulbs are LED.
Only boil the water you need, not a full kettle
Wash at lower temperatures, making sure it’s a full load.
Turn down flow temperature and hot water temperature on boiler.
Fit aerators to taps and shower head

Etc etc etc - lots of things which individually may only save half a percent or one percent (though the boiler things could save 5-10%), but taken together make a big difference.

The steps I’ve taken include driving an EV, installing solar panels and battery and getting on an EV tariff. I’ve just fixed that for the next 12 months (7.5p/kWh for 4 hours a night, 40.9p the rest of the time and 51.36p standing charge) and our estimated electricity cost for the next year is less than £600, including charging the EV. If I didn’t have the solar and battery it would be nearly £1,500 on this tariff, about the same on the standard variable tariff as it currently is, and therefore more on the SVR from October.

On gas, I got us on to Octopus Tracker when that was capped at 6p, that puts our annual gas costs at around £700. But Tracker has since increased its cap to 11p, and then to 16p. SVR for gas is now 7.5p, could be 12p from October - so if we were on that, our gas costs would be £1,800.

All of which adds up to saying - if we were on standard variable tariffs and had not done the solar/battery thing, we would be looking at close to £4,000 pa for energy for 2 people in a new, fairly energy efficient 4-bed - although that does include charging an EV, so no petrol bill to budget for.

It’ll be the heating.

This month, our gas is providing hot water only - around 110 kWh used. In January, with the central heating on, it was over 1,800 kWh.

An extra 1,700 kWh at 7.5p (current SVR for gas) = £127.50 extra.
At 12p/kWh (guesstimate SVR from October) = £204 extra

That’s on my usage. We are also 2 people in a biggish 4-bed, but it’s new build and energy efficient. I don’t scrimp, but I have taken steps to reduce usage. So my prediction is that your actual cost next January will be a lot more than £145 + £204.

With a level DD all year round, you build up credit in the summer and use it up over the winter. If your DD now was only just covering your usage, you would be storing up trouble. Whether your £300 DD will be enough to see you over the winter - bearing in mind you will receive £400 credit from the Government between October and March - I can’t be sure, but I’m inclined to think not.

£300/month = £3,600/year, and that is now the price cap prediction for the mythical TYPICAL household usage of 12,000 kWh gas and 2,900 kWh electricity. I rather suspect yours will be higher than that.

There are lots of ways to potentially reduce usage without skimping on comfort, though not all are appropriate to every house and family’s situation. That reduces cost as well as CO2. As the effects of climate change get more and more obvious, we have two compelling motivators to reduce our carbon emissions.

Apologies for the multiple posts (here’s another!) - man was having a wobbly this morning and I did t know the first one had posted.

I agree. We're definitely noticing we have less disposable income but we're ok.
I'm self employed and supply what could be classed as a luxury service and I'm busier than ever so clearly a lot of people aren't affected.

This thread reminds me of my Sister in law during the 80's. She dropped into the conversation that she didn't think that anyone was in hardship and the recession wasn't real because she shopped in M&S and everyone was spending money. She took our silence as encouragement and followed that nearly everyone at her golf club drove nearly new Jags, so factories closing was a myth.

Are you are taking posters honest appraisal of their lack of financial stress as a denial of the fact that other families are struggling?

27% of children in the UK live in poverty. This will push more into poverty. I would say nearly 1/3 of the children in a developed country living in poverty is a unacceptable crisis.

Right now, we're doing ok. Probably manage to save £500 a month. But our mortgage deal is due to end next year. I was playing around on a comparison site yesterday and the cheapest mortgage I could find was £100 more a month than we're paying now. And interest rates are due to increase a lot in the next year, so god knows what it will be by then. We run two cars (out of necessity). We have a toddler and a baby so will need to heat the house this winter. No just sticking a jumper on. I did a top up shop today. Literally only bought nappies, milk, bread, juice and a few bits of veg. It came to £23.

So in short, we're doing ok right now but I can see how that extra £500 a month is going to get swallowed up very quickly. I can very easily see how it will be a crisis for a lot of families.

How long do you think that will last @Alwayswonderedwhy? Only the very wealthiest will be immune from this. Unless my business supplied only to the top wealthiest 1% I’d be worried. The hospitality, beauty and travel industries are really going to feel the pinch as people’s disposable income falls.

And, yes, it’s an absolute scandal that a third of our children are in poverty.