To think the child benefit arrangements are unfair?

[MobLife]

Only just clocked this and I'm still not 100% sure I've got it right because it seems wrong...
So if 2 parents are both earning £49,999 and hence taking in almost £100k household income they can continue to claim full CB

But

2 parents where the household income is way under that (lets say for arguments sake £70k) and one parent is earning the greater proportion (between £50-60k) will either get a much reduced CB amount or potentially nothing at all?

How is that fair??!

Why is a single person in poverty? Before having ny Son I worked 60 hours a week.. I had 2 jobs. I had plenty of money not even that I had OPTIONS and FLEXIBILITY these things dramatically change if you are a parent, let alone a SINGLE PARENT.

Why is a single person in poverty? Before having ny Son I worked 60 hours a week.. I had 2 jobs. I had plenty of money not even that I had OPTIONS and FLEXIBILITY these things dramatically change if you are a parent, let alone a SINGLE PARENT.

Not to get into a Yorkshiremen sketch but I worked way longer hours than that before kids.

Yet many single people are in poverty. Working a lot isn't always enough as many jobs don't pay overtime. One salary often isn't enough to survive these days - especially as pointed out repeatedly here - a household with the same income but two adults living in it, with only a marginal difference in outgoings, is taxed far, far less. Many single old people also live in poverty.

Yes of course it is WAY worse being a single parent and all of the extra costs that involves AND being taxed more than a household with two adults. But in basic fairness surely we can all agree that tax thresholds etc should all be based on the household income (household defined as adults in a relationship living together). That would solve so much poverty overnight.

And @rainbowmilk I was actually homeless for a while when single and childless and got no help at all. I get your perspective. I think changing the system so that single people living alone also have double the tax free allowance etc would make a HUGE difference.

Typical comments here like 50k income "you don't need it" How do you know they don't need it? With a single parent earning 50k likely comes with a big mortgage they are struggling with alone plus HUGE childcare costs because, yes they are a single WORKING parent to earn that 50k. So they doesn't deserve that benefit to help them out a bit as well? So many of these comments automatically assume there are two parents involved, it's shocking.

The simple answer to this is: not everyone is you. If you genuinely think the only reason anyone can be impoverished is by having children then I’ve no idea what to say to you except educate yourself.

I agree with your suggestions 100% but it’ll never happen because the government does not care about single people (with or without children), sadly.

Yep. Always zero understanding of housing costs and childcare costs in different parts of the country. Do people think women choose to be poor?

I agree with your suggestions 100% but it’ll never happen because the government does not care about single people (with or without children)

You're right. But that is because nobody is campaigning for this change. If MPs start getting lots of emails about this from constituents, it WILL change.

The question is how many will stand up and do this: write a simple email?

This is the only thing you’ve written that I disagree upon - but I do admire it 👍 I have close to zero faith sadly in our ‘democracy’ in this regard. I’ve written numerous letters over the years to both sitting MPs, candidates and journalists.

vanishingly few of them understand basic arithmetic, the unintended consequences of their systems - no matter how well intended etc. I genuinely believe the lobbyists and corporations that fund the political parties have become far, far too powerful for us to see any real change now. And it doesn’t matter which party is in power.

look at who we are about to get as PM. Both inept, just differently so and with an opposition who’s only current strength is the other side are even more stupid.

The only thing that might bring about real change is the age related demographics. But give it a generation or three, and the same old issues will arise. It’s human nature. Most people are both ridiculously short termist, and myopically selfish.

But absolutely do keep writing. If nothing else, it’s a sense of doing something, and keeping your own perspective in check and shows deep integrity. That’s a good thing. 👍👍👍

As a single parent earning between 50 & 60k, I pay 40% paye, 12% NI and for every £ I earn, I lose 10p in child benefit, making my marginal tax return 62.5%

Fyi this is incorrect. Over the upper earnings limit (about 50k) your NI rate is only 3.25%. Your marginal tax rate is 53.25%.

I do think there should be some means of adjustment for single parents, especially those receiving little/no maintenance.

But that's hardly a typical situation. Very few families will be entitled to such a large amount of tax credits on that income plus they have more children than average anyway.

The loss for a 2 child household with no additional needs will be far lower.

Does it not being typical make it fine?

Should we really have interactions in our tax and benefit system where people lose money from their household working more?

I thought ‘making work pay’ was a thing.

In the case above - the person is better off cutting their hours, unless they can salary sacrifice the money.

I remember when this policy was introduced, was in the deep midst of single parenting on a single income.

Thought it was really unfair at the time, as I was penalised for striving to earn more and then just when getting there...being beaten down.

I recall the 'Big Society' theme was being pushed around quite a bit at the time, and maybe I was being cynical but I thought it was subtlety 'discouraging' single parenthood and deliberately 'showing' that the family unit is ultimately better.

As if single parenting is what someone would consciously want to do if they could help it? No recognition of the factors driving it nor the impact.

I agree - this policy needs to be revisited. It is grossly unfair on those who are single for whatever reason.

It was said at the time it was due to 'HMRC Systems'...Well....look what has happened in the recent past with Covid Loans, Furlough, etc at very short notice.

I know they will say global pandemic but the issue of the Single Parents CB being unfairly taxed would surely be on a much smaller scale?

I agree with PP's who have suggested that we should look to rekindle this debate via MP's

It's very unfair.

Married couples should also be allowed to file joint tax returns - as they can in vast majority of countries.

It’s never going to change.

By pissing off people who can afford it (and by that I mean people who feel the loss of CB, but it isn’t the very very very last straw of heat or eat) it gave the government free reign to attack other benefits with public support under the guise of “everyone is suffering”.

Universal credit and its farce, the nightmare of PIP, and the absolute decimation of widowed parents benefits all had a veneer of acceptability because “everyone” was taking a hit.

Good for you? I remember my dad used to work 60 hours a week. It was basically work, sleep and repeat. What sort of life is that?

As a two income family whose gross income is under £50k I don’t think about the households where the sole parent or one of a couple earn over the threshold nor the family where both earn just under. We spend what we can afford and save what we can where we can. I have more concern for a sole parent earning well under £50k

We were a dual income household earning below 50k total not that long ago, and I still knew it was grossly unfair to single parents then.

You're right. Remember lockdown too? All the rules of lockdown one assumed a nuclear family. It was hellish for single parents with kids as well as lone elderly etc.

Says the person complaining about poverty. The point completely went over your head quite clearly.

I often work extra to buy things I need not 60 hours as I can't... being a single parent. Because a life of poverty is no life either.

Child benefit should be a universal benefit, available to everyone, IMO. It is a clear statement that the well being of children is a priority. While not everyone needs it, the high earners are paying high taxes, and this, along with a basic state pension, should be considered the cost of having everyone's buy-in for a system where we pay taxes, often for the benefit of other people.

I think you are right. I just don't want to believe it as it's so depressing. I like to think that just out of self-interest, if enough constiuents flood MPs inboxes complaining about an issue it will have an effect. But maybe it won't. Or maybe just not enough people care about it to do so.