Why are over 80% of school suspensions boys?

[ZenAgainWoo]

Watched a tv show not long ago looking at children who have been suspended from school, and I think it stated that near 85% of school suspensions are boys. Why is this? Am I missing something glaringly obvious?

Because badly behaved boys take the piss throughout primary and at home when they are small ‘boys will be boys culture’. There is a completely different set of rules for girls who will be labelled as ‘little madams’ and shamed if they dare so snatch a toy in Reception.

but then these boys get to 13 and they are 6 foot and it’s suddenly not funny any more and then they start getting off rolled or manage moved elsewhere

The thing about those gender disappointment threads is that they're feeding the problem, they're not just reflecting it. Someone who thinks that they only want a girl because girls are sweet and lovely and wear pretty dresses and they don't want a boy because boys are boisterous and naughty and physical is clearly going to be a crap parent to either sex (and they're not going to do their potential girls any favours) but they're particularly likely to raise a boy steeped in the worst stereotypes of masculinity.

Admittedly, I'm tuned into autism, since my son has it, but I also think a high percentage of teenagers whom schools exclude have autism, whether diagnosed or not, and this condition is much more prevalent in boys than in girls. Probably true of ADHD, too. Autism is wanting things your way and struggling to get the point of view of another peer, and often such learners do better in a small group environment or one-to-one - an internal exclusion unit, or a PRU.

A now de- transitioned FTM has written how the testosterone she was prescribed to forward her physical transition made her more aggressive and short tempered. She said that she could tell a difference in her moods according to the level of her prescription.

One thing that’s very noticeable near me, in a fairly affluent area, is that the boys are allowed to hang out unsupervised with their mates at a much younger age than the girls, and they tend to be in a much bigger crowd. I wonder if this leads to greater peer pressure to misbehave both in and out of school. The girls seem to be home-based for more years.

At the most basic level it's to do testosterone, surely. There is nothing we can do about the fact that men will always be more prone to violence and risk, it's in their biology. I am sure there is a lot more we could do socialization- and nurture-wise to bring down the levels of violence and redirect natural male aggression towards something more positive.

There are lots of really obvious societal influences. Girls who do stereotypically male hobbies,etc. are celebrated. The opposite for boys. Lesbian girls vs gay boys, just think about that. One is cool and edgy and the other is practically suicidal in a lot of schools. The space that each group takes up in the playground in primary. I'd say it's about 90% male and all the middle is. The girls are on the verges. Football is lauded and close to religious. Women's sport is derided or ignored. Who has all the clothes with predators on it? Who has weird bikinis covering non-existent sexualised organs? Be Kind clothes are really just for one sex.

It's all right there. From before birth. Myriad, really obvious examples. And people are like, "what?".

boys are violent and girls are more bitchy, Violent crimes get you in more trouble. To be honest there should be a world wide action taken against bullying of all types, sexual emotional or physical.
It shouldn't be as accepted as it is.

I remember girls pushing other girls heads into the toilets or even worse when i was in school, and not one teacher would stand up against it. All you get is " oh we will keep an eye on them" or " well we will just have victim stay inside at lunch BECAUSE the victims should always be the ones to pay the price.

It's interesting to read this thread alongside the school threads I've read recently.

We home ed, and in many years of doing so, in a big, changing social group of around 70 - 100 kids, there are none of these issues. I mean, there are other things to handle, but there's no toxic male attitudes, very much the opposite.

There will be lots of reasons for this, I know, but the pp upthread who mentioned not sending kids to school at age 4 resonates. I think this is such an important point.

I think 4 is much too early for most children.

Males in general are less conscientious and agreeable than females, and behavioral issues and learning difficulties are commoner in males than in females. It would be astonishing if most children excluded weren't boys!

I don't think this has been mentioned yet - but I think a big reason for this this is what you can be excluded for. One student can be excluded for 1 serious physical reason. However another student who disrupts every lesson every day for 5 years (at secondary school) has a good chance of not being excluded, provided they do nothing too serious - i.e. don't hit anyone.
Many teacher will have seen this - two boys have a disagreement, have a scrap and it's all forgotten about. Two girls have a disagreement and the feud disrupts multiple lessons for weeks afterwards. However they boys get in trouble for being physical when really the girls are the ones who have a massive impact on everyone else.

Re societal influences: I'm sure there are some impacts of this, but anyone who doesn't believe that on-average differences in behavior are not also about biological differences is really really kidding themselves.

Girls also often mask neurodiversity and SENs as want to fit in and not stand out.Sometimes with exclusions things like ADHD and other SENs are involved. When they’re masked extreme more noticeable behaviours and reactions are less.

'Some impacts'? Fish are generically fish. But if the water is misogynist, and that's where they swim, every single thing they eat, drink, see, breathe is misogynist.

Just like boys.

Before you go too far into systemic racism
it might be useful to look at the exclusion figures: black and white children are excluded at a roughly similar rate (proportionally). Black African children are excluded less often than white children. By far the biggest rate of exclusions is Gypsy/Traveller children and the highest absolute number is White British children.

www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/absence-and-exclusions/permanent-exclusions/latest

I think it’s testosterone and letting small stuff slide. From the few boys I know, the ones who seem the most responsible and behave decently had parents that kept a tight reign (not abusive or controlling just on it) had an extended family that enforced high standards of behavioural norms (respectful towards elders, kindness to younger children) were encouraged to do a lot of team sport and exercise. I do wonder if team sports helps funnel a good bit of that aggression.

And no autism is not more prevalent in boys, girls are just under diagnosed. Autism can present differently in girls who are massively let down by the system. They can mask to fit in and often suffer from big mental health problems further down the line because of it. It’s outrageous but that’s a whole other thread. I do wonder if masking impacts exclusion figures though. My daughter would mask all day at school and explode at home. I find this thread very sad as clearly that is what is preferred by society regardless of the big impact on mental health.

I am normally in agreement with @Hardbackwriter but re the gender disappointment I’m not sure it is a desire for frilly dresses.

I am TTC no2 and believe me I have had every stern word with myself about how delightful current DS is and I couldn’t love him any more if I tried I do have a visceral longing for a girl. I think it’s connected to losing my own mum.

Sorry to divert the thread but everyone has covered what I was going to say.

“Autism is wanting things your way and struggling to get the point of view of another peer”

Dont agree with that either. Autism can vary hugely in how it presents and what traits individuals have. Some may have a fixed mindset( it’s not about just wanting your own way which is offensive) some may not. Some may well get the point of view of peers…..

If it is in your own family, then review your own parenting.

Society is sexist, therefore the sexes behave differently.

I wonder if it's because girls get away with bad behaviour more than boys.

A friend of mines son has been notoriously bullied by a girl at school, using violent behaviour towards him too, he's never retaliated with violence as he's been taught violence is not the answer.

The mum has made so many complaints about the girl but she's still there with her bullying, violent ways so the mum had no choice to remove her son from school and find another.

This is the same school who suspended a boy for hitting another boy!

I agree with this and I would also add that the type of bullying you can get with girls - the gossips, rumour spreading, ostracism, verbal attacks, social media bullying etc, all that relational stuff - can be hugely damaging. At least if someone hits you, you know what they did to you, it’s easy to understand, others can see it and it can be proven. Often with CCTV in school.

As a parent to a child driven to the point of suicide attempts largely due to relational bullying from girls, I’d say it can be just as violent but in a more subtle, insidious way designed to attack and drag down the whole being of another person. Have heard it described as soul murder.

Both of us would have preferred she just got hit in the face because school would have had to take action and it would have been much easier for her to understand what was happening to her. She had the whole gaslighting it’s just a joke, not that and, in your head etc to deal with too. I removed her from that school in the end and the bullies were never dealt with. The main one seems to have moved to others and driven at least one more pupil out and still that school does nothing.

Only if you associate with these behaviours. I’ve never felt the need to say my DS is just being a boy. My DS was the youngest in his class at reception and now there is only one younger girl in his year; he was ready for school as he was coached to sit down and concentrate as both of us enjoy reading he was encouraged to do the same.
That’s not to say he’s perfect, just we don’t accept rough behaviour.