Summer holidays - outdated

[Wednesdayafternoon]

So I was just scrolling through Facebook and I saw some pictures after school club/breakfast club to my sons school put up and it just got me thinking how crazy it is that schools just completely shut down for like 6-7 weeks.
They have all these facilities during term time to support working families because there is obviously a need to for it, but in the holidays... ahh f*ck it!
Obviously o know there's summer schemes but at a massive expense and also different hours and locations.
My sons school isn't offering one so he's attending some random school for 3 days over the summer mainly just so he's socialising!
I'm extremely lucky as my mum is a great help to me during the holidays. And obviously I'm very much looking forward to spending more time with my boys and no school run... hurry!!!
But I just find it crazy that schools close for such a significant period of time.
Obviously I know school isn't childcare but it school itself enables parents to work so it kind of is 🤷🏼‍♀️

@Wednesdayafternoon

Out of interest, what do you think the answer is, then? What do you want?

As other posters have pointed out, holiday childcare IS available. You just have to pay for it. People know this when they choose to have children.

Are you implying that holiday childcare should be available for free?

I'm not clear what you are getting at, to be honest.

Op, the main thing I'm extracting from your posts is that you seem jealous of school staff having long holidays and because you don't have them you feel school staff shouldn't either.

I think dc need time to stop and stare and the holidays allow for this.

Last year I imagined 6 weeks would reduce post lockdown due to having to catch the kids up from missing two years.

And parents would be willing to pay for them or would they expect some more free childcare? The American camps are eye wateringly expensive.

In what way are the holidays outdated? Are you referring to the popular myth that the summer holidays were to enable children to assist with the harvest? Our educational system was established in the 19th century when farming was so mechanised, there were complaints that there wasn't enough farm labour work for adult men, let alone there being enough work to necessitate thousands of children labouring in the fields a whole season before the autumn harvest.
Many historians state that the origins of the long summer holiday lay in the need to get the children out of the classrooms during the hottest months.
So I ask, is this need outdated? Are our summers no longer hot? Are the classrooms now air conditioned? Are our children now in need of even more time learning when there is plenty of pedagogical evidence demonstrating that more time in school does not equal higher quality learning?

Again, it is not schools or holidays that are outdated. Our working patterns are not compatible.

I'll say it again for the people in the back: Don't punish the children. It is not their fault. Ask for better lives for us all, not worse lives for our children for the sake of an inconvenience that we will only have the pleasure of experiencing for the most fleeting amount of time.

Catch kids up from what? We are one of the most highly pressurised, tested and accountability based systems in the world. Our children start earlier than most and spend a higher % of time than most other countries in school (England). With relatively poor global results to show for it and high rates of mental health diagnoses in our youth.

Maybe, just maybe the children need to slow down and the system needs to change.

Exactly this. I was coming on to post this exact statement myself.

as another poster also said, there is absolutely zero flexibility for teaching staff regarding their own children. Mine gets dropped at breakfast club at 7:30 (would be 7 if they opened sooner as I would prefer to get Through the traffic with time to spare on arriving at work) and picked up at 5:30 ( again this would be later if later was provided). I only work part time. One reason I can’t work full time is that our staff meeting/training evening actually finishes too late for me to get back through the traffic to collect my children before their after school club closes. The other reason I need to work part time is that one of my daughters was having a lot of medical appointments which are only ever available on weeks days during school hours. So I basically had to drop days to be able to do that. I’m now needing those days for looking after my elderly parents so can’t go back full time. But none of the flexibility of going on late for an appointment or making up hours for an appointment that other jobs give. And then finally we are paid for 1265 hours per year which equates to 195 days of 6 hour days. How many teachers do you know that only work a 6 hour day?? That would be 8:30-3:30 with an unpaid hour for lunch. Teachers are in school way more hours that those and are also then taking work home.

I do agree though that 6 weeks is a long break. They probably should make it 4 and make all the other holidays 2 weeks. But people would still complain at this. But if they shortened the total amount of holidays then teachers would require additional pay.

I think it's a bit rich to accuse posters of not engaging with your points when you haven't actually engaged with any of the well laid out reasons why your solution is flawed.

Sadly, if you had made this thread less of a teacher bash exercise and engaged properly, you would have found that many people's views align with some of yours for good reasons.
For example, I do think childcare needs to be better provisioned. However, as I know about child development I realise the ideal combination is good quality parental time and qualified enriching childcare. Neither of these are solutions schools can offer and are something that could be achieved through sure start style provision and reviewing the British attitude to working hours and taking a more healthy approach to flexibility and work life balance. None of which is the school remit but would require government intervention and plenty of money.

@afuckinggoat In my opinion think they are outdated because in previous generations there would typically be a stay at home parent who would be able to spend the holidays with them. To enable the children to be able to do all the things that you and many others have rightly pointed out that children need - a break, fun with family etc etc. For a lot, date I even suggest the majority, this is absolutely not the case and I think to support parents the school year should be adapted OR the goivermenr or whoever makes these decisions should come up with a way or a scheme to support both children and parents who still need that routine.
I don't agree that it's sustainable or healthy to have children passed between family members or random play schemes or families going into poverty to support this. I think that if schools or goouverments can advertise before and after school clubs then there should be some support during the holidays img they stay this way.
Why 6 weeks? Where has the concept of SIX weeks actually come from and what's the science behind it? It seems like a really random number. Why not 4 weeks? Still a long break and less pressure on families and children. But if someone can sit here and tell me the exact reason and science and NEED for 6 whole weeks, nearly 2 months of no school or routine for children then I am MORE then happy to listen and try to understand it.
I am not a teacher. I don't work in education. I am not a member of gouvernment. I don't have the solution to the problem I see. But I really strongly believe that 6 weeks off in the summer is something. We have done for generations and I just don't understand why. I think there's alot of people who are very lucky to be able to enjoy it, there's a hell of alot more people o clueing children who don't.
I have no problem with teachers. I don't want them to work for free and I have never once implied or said so. I've just spent half an hour writing a card for my sons teacher for her last day tomorrow to say how great full I am for her. This is not a teacher blasting argument. It's more a post about questioning the norm.
Families and lives are different now then what they were 50 years ago.

So what you actually want isn’t shorter holidays, you want social services to do their job properly and actually look after children at risk. Schools are for TEACHING. Social workers should protect vulnerable children. Good grief - is there anything teachers aren’t responsible for in this country?

I have said a few times I don't have the answer to the problem. So how am I being rich? I didn't say it should be my way, I've literally said I don't know! So how exactly am I being rich?

I totally agree there needs to be more childcare in the holidays for the full working day. Most holiday clubs are 10am-3pm ish. This is totally impractical for many. I am a dentist and get about 6 weeks a year off, can't cover all the school holidays. Dh is also in healthcare, we have no nearby family. What really winds me up is the fuss that many teacher patients make about having their dental appointments in the school holidays. Whilst I do acknowledge that this may be necessary there is absolutely no thought from them about when I get to see/ look after my children.

I think you need to re read my posts then!
Although now you've mentioned it I would love to have the summer holidays off with my son. I really wish I could have that time but I don't and it wasn't the incentive behind my post whatsoever!

So you expect teachers to consider when you see your children when you say they are 'fussing' by wanting appointments that suit them?

Consideration works both ways.

It's rich because you are not actually responding to points. Just banging out your opinion.

But at least we've finally got you to admit the actual government have a role to sorting it. Not schools. So maybe some of it is going in.

I’d be in favour of a slight redistribution to have an extra week in the May half term but I also think this last week has really been dragging and the kids could have done with finishing last week which would mean extending. A long break gives people a better chance of getting annual leave over the summer. Dropping it to 4 weeks would create a mad scramble.

OP - once again... how do you explain that the schools which seem to have the best educational outcomes and happiest children (e.g. in Scandinavia) have longer holidays?

You're asking what 'science' a 6 week holiday is based on? Well, where is your science that proves that children should have less holiday?

So it isn't more learning you want? It's more free childcare. Schools are for education. Can you agree that, in accordance with many global pedagogical studies, that our children will not benefit from more educational time than they already receive, and that it is more free childcare that you want?

You're not alone. And you're right. This model was more easy to manage in the past when there were more households with a parent who did not work. Today, far more parents are raising children alone, the 'village' cannot help us, both parents in the household must work to achieve the same levels of economic comfort experienced by previous generations. You are right. It is so much harder today. I'm with you there.

But the answer isn't more school. School is for education and we don't need more education. Other things can change before we rob children of desperately needed time off.

Also just to add to my last lengthy post 🙈 the only summer schemes I've seen advertised in my area are sport ones. I have not seen one arts and crafts or reading or gaming or anything like that scheme local to me at all.
My son is going to a play scheme for 3 days mid the holidays just to give my mum a break and to give him the chance to have some independent socialising... but he hates sports. I'm expecting him to not enjoy it at all.
Imagine if I had to put him in this for all of my shifts all summer? He would be SO miserable.
So if nothing changes and everything stays the same but I fall into the category of having no childcare and have to use the play schemes there's nothing available for my son locally.

They have camps in the US because the children are off school for 12 weeks from mid May to mid August!

@Wednesdayafternoon

I agree that childcare in the holidays needs to be better. I think there should be clubs for vulnerable children and parents who need it. There may be school staff who would appreciate extra money to run them.

But what you are saying doesn’t make sense. The schools don’t make the rules. The government makes the rules about the attendance expectations and then make the schools enforce this otherwise ofsted then potentially fail the school based on attendance. The schools values have nothing to do with the government rules. Schools provide the breakfast and after school clubs partly by choice as they want to support their families with reasonably priced familiar childcare.

On another note, as a childless teacher in my younger days I loved the 6 weeks break and the flexibility it gave me to have a holiday (at a higher price than those who can go on holiday during term time). I also found it a bit lonely as most of my teacher friends had families so I didn’t see them during the 6 weeks. Most of my non teacher friends would be working. So I’d have quite a lot of time on my hands. Since having children I find the 6 weeks flies by but is also the most exhausting part of my year!! As the teacher parent the childcare for the summer does fall on me. Their dad may have them for a few days here or there depending on his work. One of my children is autistic and struggles with the lack of routines so likes activities to be planned and carried out and can’t cope with many days of just doing nothing at home. They’re not at the age where they would go out to play with friends and disappear for hours. Autistic child doesn’t like ‘playing out’ and the other child would need taking to and from her friends’ houses. We don’t have kids living on our street to play onto with.

@afuckinggoat see my last post also.
I'm not scavagiving for free childcare. I'm a single parent and I pay for my son on my own.
I don't feel the current 6 weeks holidays suits my lifestyle and I don't think it suits the lifestyle of most people I know. So I go back to my point of what is the benifit to my son For 6 weeks? I don't see why it has to be 6 weeks. If there's a reason then fine, tell me, but nobody has.

I would be more then happy for my son to spend some extra time being creative or socialising or learning, but there are no options around me other then sports.
So again.... where is the options for a boy like him? He's signed up to a sports scheme which he will no doubt hate... but hey if nothing changes that's just the way it is!

Just to say op, I teachinically have the qualifications to set up a non sport summer provision.
However, even if I magically got enough money from the government to set it up so I could employ qualified safe people for a fair wage in a suitable.enviroment. well the thought of having to deal with attitudes like yours puts me right off.
Maybe if people appreciated people who look after their children more there wouldn't be a dearth of wiling childcare providers.