Making accommodations isn't always 'kind' (uni)

[Jourdain11]

I'm interested in knowing general opinions on this. I would accept that the last few years have been tough for students, and UG finalists in particular have had their full course horribly disrupted. But I am struck by how the accommodations made for students have really not helped them, in a large proportion of cases. I work in a uni (London Russell Group, competitive and highly-rated) and the number of students who have requested deferrals and so on for MH reasons is huge. In my role, I pushed back a bit and said that we shouldn't be advocating this as a way of dealing with any level of pressure and anxiety. In some cases it was absolutely necessary, but in others I felt that it was just becoming a pattern or a way of buying more time.

Ultimately, in the careers many of these graduates will go on to have, they will have to work to deadlines and deal with pressure, and part of the uni experience is providing preparation for that.

We now have students who are very upset because they cannot graduate with their peers, who are very anxious because they've deferred half their year's assessments to a one-werk resits period and feel they will not cope, or who are just disappointed that they haven't completed the year and have uncertainty as regards progression. Plus those who have now come to see assessment as an absolutely terrifying and insurmountable thing because we have agreed that they clearly weren't capable of sitting their exams, when they probably were.

Overall, I feel that we need to be encouraging coping strategies and empowering students, rather than encouraging them to opt out on the most tenuous rationale. But some of my colleagues would consider this to be virtually heresy and I'm not sure how we're going to get out of this place we have found ourselves in.

It’s the same reason the majority of students now graduate with a 1st. University has become a transaction, the students pay a fee and expect a result.

They don’t expect to have to work hard for it.

There should absolutely be support in place for those who need it (counselling etc) but extending deadlines, revising grades etc isn’t helping with the underlying problem (if there is one).

I think a lot of students know how it work the system.

Hard agree. I had this discussion a few nights ago and strongly we need to be building in resilience training - that sometimes times are hard and you need to suck it up and get on with it. I don’t think we act in students’ best interests by giving them what they want rather than focusing on what they need - ultimately they need to get their degrees as a priority.

Agreed, it is absolutely people like PP's son who need the support. Sadly, they may have a harder time accessing it because uni services are so massively oversubscribed and stressed.

And yes, our workload has increased repulsively and nobody really is doing anything to mitigate that ("colleagues, we appreciate your hard work" once a term makes precious little difference to me. This was not intended to be a "poor me" thread, but I worked 8am-8pm every day last week and all the thanks I'll get will probably be a slapped wrist about whether all this OT was approved (it was not, but then my manager who would approve it has been off sick for a month so...).

Agree OP.

Yes absolutely to all of this. The resistance from students to in-person exams is massive, but as an examiner I can see from the work that the online exams do them absolutely no favours — the standard of the average piece of work is far, far lower in an online exam than on an in-person exam.

The students actually perform much better in in-person exams, perhaps precisely because of a bit of productive stress — but they and the student unions have got themselves into a mindset that they don’t. It’s really unhelpful to them; and a few students I’ve had — who I know are capable of decent 2:1s — have got 2:2s through delaying deadlines and asking for adjustments and so on which is really frustrating to see.

Agree that it has ended up with students pathologising any uncomfortable feelings when sometimes these are not a bad thing at all. One of my old bosses used to talk constantly about how it was only a “development opportunity” if you felt “out of your comfort zone”; and whilst I could do without the management-speak, I agree that doing an academic degree at university is not supposed to be a comfortable leisure experience where only good feelings are tolerated. You’re meant to be learning and stretching yourself and working!

I have no skin in this game, but I do wonder whether the graduates are the ones who are broken here? Your system sounds like people aren’t really allowed to be terribly human. Refuting the culture that work comes before family, health and mental health to the detriment of themselves is a very millennial theme. As they perceive themselves to be treated poorly at work from the outset, without the dangling carrots of jobs-for-life, home ownership, cushy retirements and disposable income that boomers had, you can perhaps see where they developed the attitude. I’m not saying it’s right, I can just see where it comes from.

I spoke with my husband about this the other day. We're neither of us ancient (both 34) and we both agreed that asking for a deadline extension would never have crossed our minds back in the Dark Ages when we studied. Not in a "never would have wished to do such a thing" but more like nobody did and we scarcely knew it was possible. On an unrelated point, universities really need to invest more in human resources if this situation is to continue. I enjoy my work, but I'd also like to see my children occasionally 😅

Agreed, it is absolutely people like PP's son who need the support. Sadly, they may have a harder time accessing it because uni services are so massively oversubscribed and stressed.

People like PP’s son are also not getting they support they need because blanket accommodations given to an entire cohort ( eg the blanket self-awarded extensions I mentioned previously) mean that students in crisis are now more likely to go undetected. If students have to come forward to request extensions, then we become aware of their difficulties. They way things are currently, they are subsumed within the less serious general situation of their cohort,

I don't think anyone feels that and I've actually advocated for some students who have had situations where their studies have understandably had to take a backseat (one where the student had Long Covid and another where they had caring responsibilities, but others where they've just disengaged due to lack of confidence and so on...). The issue is that most people have to work to live rather than live to work.

Of course, the result of this situation is that the millennials on the uni staff are continuing to have a poor work-life balance 😀

The last 3 years have absolutely destroyed many young people's mental health

What was happening between July 2019 and March 2020? What was happening between July 2021 and now?

The truth is, unless you work in medicine there's been 1 shitty, traumatic year then near normality. Not 3 years of anything.

Hard agree OP. HARD. AGREE. It has gone beyond ridiculous at this stage in my view. I’ve taught modules where 60%+ got an extension on the final essay. And as @frustratedacademic noted, this then impacts our calendars as I’m now suddenly marking most of the essays, anywhere from 2-4 weeks later than anticipated. Something needs to be done. I’m in favour of marking with the knowledge that students have had an extra 2 weeks versus their peers, for example. But as you say, among many colleagues that is heresy…

It's very possible that there's a lack of support precisely because claims of 'anxiety' have watered down the support that is very important for actual chronic sufferers.

I agree with that to an extent - the generational inequities are staggering (they are between the boomers and my generation; they’re doubly so now). But five or ten years ago my students worked hard. I mean really hard; harder than I did at university and they were twice as professional. I felt bad for them in comparison because it was like they were working much harder than I ever did but getting much less. They were working 50-60 hours a week and playing hard, too. I was quite awed.

In the last 3-5 years? They’re working much less than my generation did. They say they can’t finish a book a week which is too high a workload. They repeatedly can’t meet deadlines for a 1,200 word paper a few times a semester. They don’t even attempt the reading lists, no matter do the basics of them (they kind of just ignore them, which is very frustrating — unless you send them a PDF or an online article they seem to regard the reading as optional). A few seem to think they can get all the knowledge they need from Wikipedia and YouTube videos. They’re most definitely not working to the extent that my students were routinely doing 5-10 years ago. It was also getting under way before the pandemic, though the pandemic definitely made it a lot worse.

I don’t know what cultural shift has caused this, but I notice that whereas before, students wanted to please me and do well; but now they seem to regard all their lecturers as manifestations of some kind of (possibly bigoted) oppressive authority which must be subverted or resisted.

It’s a huge mindset change, and I find it especially weird when most staff on the coal face have done absolutely everything to help them during the pandemic. I wanted to learn as much as possible from my lecturers and would have been absolutely mortified for any of them to think I was lazy or resistant. I can’t imagine having treated them as annoyances to be got round!

Ten years ago I thought my students were better prepared for life and the workplace than my generation ever were. This cohort I think much much less so, to the point where I think many will really struggle.

I'm not an academic, more of a perpetual student and ex professional who used to recruit and manage some graduate jobs.

I don't disagree with what you say. I think it is terrific that we are becoming more understanding of mental health issues and looking for ways to accommodate and manage these.

However, I'm just not sure that being so handy with extensions etc is the answer.

I agree that for less severe issues (obv not talking about psychosis etc) I think there should be more counselling provision and more support in managing workload, seeking pastoral help etc. It just doesn't equip people with the tools to manage real life and work burdens. That's not to say we should grit our teeth and carry on at the expense of our own wellbeing, it is just as OP says, counterproductive if students are allowed to defer their coursework so it is all due at once. I do believe in automatic capped resits as anyone can have an off day, but I don't think that uncapped repeat attempts are necessarily helpful if the tactic is then to avoid exams and have them hanging over all summer when the student could be recharging and getting mentally prepared for the following year. It's just kicking the can down the road in some cases.

I have a medical condition and for my MSc was granted a blanket extra week for all coursework assignments. Did it do me any good? No! I just came to view the extended deadline as the deadline and as I was working full time it was invariably a rush, just a week later.

I think try and maintain the structure of the course where possible and support the students within that.

Yes I agree.

I work in a fairly tough industry and have been really struck by how much very recent grads bring up their mental health in all manner of discussions.

To be clear I think recent awareness of well-being is a lot better than the 90s when god forbid you admitted any weakness (although arguably that was more honest in terms of the competition you have to cope with)… in very recent years it seems to have got out of proportion.

Like all imbalances I suspect it will settle back down, but yes agree that some training in coping skills is needed.

My DP works in a pastoral role and often says students are being set up to fail in their chosen career. For example, given a massive amount of support for what are very stressful and challenging jobs. Realistically if they can not manage the stress of the degree, they have no chance of managing the job.

It's very possible that there's a lack of support precisely because claims of 'anxiety' have watered down the support that is very important for actual chronic sufferers

I think this is true. To compound the issue I’ve noticed students accessing our Counselling service with what is a normal level of stress / being out of their comfort zone, and then loudly telling other students (some of whom are genuinely in need of the service) that the Counselling service was useless / did nothing for them. I’ve had to really push students who’ve been told this to pursue wellbeing services they need.

I also agree- young people know how to employ the term mental health in order to avoid the obligations of a degree. During covid we had a total no-detriment policy which meant no evidence was required for anything.

However, for some of them, extensions/mit circs allowed them to pass when previously they probably would not have submitted. The sad truth is that some people will game the system for extensions and there is nothing we can do about it sometimes.

I do worry about that generation though, there seems to be little personal accountability, responsibility or resilience for many. It is great to open up talk and understanding about mental health but sometimes I feel it has actually become worse as a result. Unless life really is just more difficult these days.

I do feel bad for academics regarding the disruption to marking schedules. I'd say most of the summarises in the dept I work in had a 50% extension rate, and that was with the reintroduction of evidence requirements!

I empathise completely. I've just resigned from an independent school (supposedly a selective academic one) because of an extraordinarily needy year 12 and my poor DH, a University lecturer's, own MH is in the toilet because his post-1992 university has recruited so many poor quality students.

I agree that over compensating for normal exam anxiety is taking up resources that are needed for more serious cases, which we all encounter.

As a parent of a child in university I agree - my daughter was given an extension to the end of August for an assignment which was due in May, I don't think this has done her any favours.

I can only speak for my DCs whose mental health has never been great, possibly due to undiagnosed neurodiversity, but Covid did a real job on them.
DS has just done his A levels and his MH suffered so much that even now he’s not back to pre-exam levels of stability and we had to pretty much have a crisis psych intervention.
DD is about to start uni for the 2nd time - online uni was a big part of why the first year was such an issue as well as having had life suddenly stop due to first lockdown.
I’ve no doubt some swing the lead but what I’ve seen with their peers, there is are a lot of debilitating anxiety and MH issues around. My DS says pushing him into doing things does not work - if you ‘make’ him try to gain resilience he just gets worse. I would say it’s 50/50 whether he takes up his uni place this year.

I think it goes further back than university. So many young people doing GCSE and A level have special arrangements of one sort or another and I wonder what percentage it now is. When I worked as a SENCo, the expectation was that about 2% of students would require additional support. I’d be interested to know the percentage now.

Clearly, certain conditions are more likely to receive a diagnosis and that’s right, but it feels as though resilience is lacking and certainly reducing. Of course, people who need it should have support, but how much, at what level and at what point is it reasonable to expect that students are able to confront their anxieties and face the assessments and exams.

I was made to rewrite 3 sets of tests and exams to accommodate students who missed the first go for reasons of "anxiety" aka not revised.

It was 20-30% with us (you don't need much evidence for "rest breaks" and none for separate rooms).