High school for DD 11 - private vs state

[tattyteddy]

I’m probably being unreasonable but her goes….

my daughter is going to high school in September. I really want her to go to private school, however my husband is dead set on the idea she goes to the local secondary school.

my work means I have a good knowledge of the local school, they are all massive academies. They are focused on discipline, for example sending kid home if they’ve forgotten planner etc. I think the emphasis should be on nurturing. If a kid is in school that’s surely a win? My DD is good at school so not worried she will get disciplined for bad behaviour. However, the local schools are so focused on discipline that even good kids get negative points. I’ve also heard that there is a gang issue at the school.

my dh states we can’t afford it. It will be a little tight but my parents have agreed to pay half the fees. They only have two gc and want them to have the best opportunities. I just can’t seem to get over the fact she will be going yo the local state academy. She has been offered a place at local private school too. Please help me

Being offered a place is neither here nor there - you’ll always find somewhere to take your money 🤷🏻‍♀️

Can your parents afford this and sustain that for 7 years?
Can your family afford the other 50%?
”a little tight” doesn’t really tell us anything.

If his objection is financial rather than philosophical though, I’m inclined to side with him.

What does “a little tight” really mean?

You really need to think about the financial side of this for the next 7 years.

That’s not just school fees either. My youngest starts y7 at indi in September and the uniform is £400. That’s before trips, extras etc.

Thanks fir the reply. when I say little tight I mean less money for holidays, treats etc.

Do you have a second child?

Also the job I do now is permanent, but I could earn more if I went supply. To bed honest I’m not very worried about the financial side of it.

To be honest, I think you need to try and separate the wants of you and your DH, and really weigh up your DDs personality and what it is she needs.
If the disciplinarian way that your local school uses, is going to upset DD, and hinder her chances of success, then obviously the more nurturing school is going to be a better fit. DDs school was chosen because it was a nurturing school, had most of the intake from her primary, and also rivalled the private schools in the area in terms of academic prospects. They start their GCSES early in DDs school and a few of the teachers have scared the life out of her with threats to the whole class. What I'm trying to say is the approach of a school can really make or break the success of its students if they don't cope with the hard line approach.

As a side note, the privately educated people I know had better opportunities, we're taught in a different way it seemed, but aren't necessarily any more successful than the people I know who are state educated, but they do tend to have better connections stemming from their private school days.

I can see the for and against arguments, but the deciding factor really needs to be your DD

That still doesn’t really tell us anything.
So at your usual level of saving, with your usual holidays and treats spending, how much do you save a month? And how much would your 50% of the school fees be?

You’re not, we know. He is. What’s not clear is if he’s being reasonable.

Yes do have second child, but he’s only six. So got a few years to go. My parents could afford it and are happy to help.

Paying half would mean about £7500 a year for me. I probably have about a £1000 left each month for savings etc. at present I don’t worry about going out for dinner etc or booking a holiday. Obviously, if she went to private school then of have to be more careful.

I don’t see how discipline in school is a bad thing; especially in schools with bigger classes.

Its not a win to have a DC in school habitually minus the proper equipment. It often means class time is taken up sorting them out and finding them the books/pens/paper they need; impacting everyone. Encouraging personal responsibly and organisation is a vital life lesson.

I agree, but I think the most important thing is for the child to be at school.

You haven't said anything good about the private school. Private does not automatically equal better than state and if you can only just afford it then you are potentially putting your DD in a very difficult situation.

And your husband?
If you have £10K a year for holidays and treats as a couple, then £2.5K “only” is a big hit to lifestyle.
But if he is also saving each month, then perhaps you can afford it.

Sorry, that’s £12K a year, but my point stands. There’s a reason why he doesn’t think it’s affordable when you do, and who’s to say he isn’t right on the detail you’ve given?

I sent my DD13 to a private all girls school. I'm a single mum with a decent career so can afford it but it's a little tight.

Girls statistically do better in single sex schools, I'm certain this helped me personally too.

Mine is quiet, has ASD so the small class sizes and better facilities etc means she is thriving. She would have absolutely sunk in the massive but very good local secondary.

I also have very big concerns about the number of sexual assaults/mixed sex facilities in mixed secondary schools.

This comes down to your child, what is she like and what does she need. Also what are your priorities.

I would go for the private school unless there is a chance it will cause financial issues down the line.
I have taught in private, state and grammar and I attended private from Reception all the way through to Upper Sixth. Private generally has better facilities, smaller class sizes, wider curriculum, fewer extreme discipline issues and good networking opportunities.

HI OP
I think well I know that public school is an amazing thing to do but I would urge you to take into consideration your child in totality,What I mean is that it doesnt suit every child,The reason I know this is because my son went to an all boys public school from 11 yrs to 18 and he loved it and thrived,but some of his classmates were miserable and dropped out over the years, My son was highly academic and the pace of school suited him but my dd is 10 and is so not the same child,I know she would struggle and it wouldnt be for her,I am not saying she doesnt deserve to go she does but I know it would be a wasted investment in terms of her,She is flighty,lovely, adorable but has no interest in academia,sports or musical ability,she would struggle just to plod on in public school. Would your dd keep up with the school day?these are often extended due to commitments the children are expected to attend,,My son often went to school at 8am and returned at 6,30 sometimes even 9 or 10 pm depending on what was happening, The work load is alot more too as expected plus sometimes the weekend is taken up by clubs or activities, It is about way more than money entering into public school. I also think whist the education is very good would it be fair for the whole family to have to make sacrifices too? If this is the case then I would advise against it, I wish you well on whatever you decide to do but even for us it was financially chalenging at times and the world is a very different place now than it was when my son went,I would think most parents now are concerned about job security and the cost of living etc and making a big commitment like that? Would you feel happy to pull her out if you couldnt afford it ?I doubt it, I dont want to put you off if your daughter could benefit from it its a wonderful thing but its a big step to take,Take your time all be on the same page its a long time 7 yrs for you all, Be sure 100% its right for all of you as a family is my advice,Many second rate public schools are loosing numbers left right and center and will take pupils who can pay gladly this too is never a good thing but they need to survice this could drive down standards and thats no good for anyone either,

My friend went to a private school when her parents were in a similar situation to you. They lived in an average house and went on average holidays abroad, but she says she always always felt like the outcast at school, because she wasn't wildly rich like all the other kids. They'd all go abroad to the house in Colorado for summer, or stay at the ski-lodge in South of France for half term, whereas my friend would stay in very nice hotels in very nice holidays, but was always poor in comparison. Over 20 years later and she still feels the sting of it. If you have to make cutbacks, or cross your fingers it'll all be ok when it's your Son's turn, then you're not realistically in a position to give your Daughter the financial support she would need to FULLY fit in with her peers.

I think you'd be doing her a disservice by sending her.

@FarmGirl78 this may well have been an experience but so many private schools are different.

The one my DD13 goes to isn't overly expensive and the majority of parents both work and are just in professional jobs. Not stupidly rich.

Farm girl! What a strange way of looking at things! Your friend would have been better of being emotionally shored up ,and realising not all that glitters is gold!

There will always be richer/poorer/happier/sadder etx

It's not just about whether you can afford fees. It's also about whether it's a good use of the money

We could have afforded private school, but I would prefer to save the money and help our DS buy a flat in future. I recognise were in a fortunate position, especially as our local state high school is excellent (and better exam results than local private school, although exams aren't everything)

Do you mean supply teaching?

Have you spoken to agencies to find out how much you would earn, or just believed the myth that supply teachers are well paid.

At best, if you work through the LA, your daily rate could be 1/195 of your annual rate (so you get paid the same as perm teacher if you work every day).

In Wales, the Framework Agreement means agencies that have signed up to the agreement should pay teachers 1/195 of the M1 rate (ie lowest qualified teacher rate). You won't have access to Teachers' Pension Scheme. They will offer Nest or similar.

Elsewhere, you may not get that - it will depend on local demand and your specialism. £100 - £120 per day is not uncommon.

Also as a supply teacher, you don't get paid sickness etc. September and the last couple of weeks of term are traditionally quiet.

If you are fully aware of this and you can still earn more - great.

I’ve taught in both state and private secondary schools and to be honest I’m convinced that private is the way to go if you can manage it. Ultimately, the three private schools I have first hand experience of are a much calmer, more studious environment where the culture is that you listen to teachers and get on with learning. There are minimal behavioural issues (not none, obviously) and it’s this that allows students to do their best. There also tend to be more extracurricular opportunities and a bigger emphasis on educating the “whole person”. Yes, academics are important, but so are mental and physical health, opportunities for music, art, etc. There will be several state schools that do this brilliantly, too. But the private sector has a bigger budget and teachers with more time on their hands to provide these things. I do a much better job for my students with class sizes of <25 than >32 and a dozen free lessons a fortnight, not five.

Apart from your views on discipline, what makes the private school better for your daughter?

Size, facilities, range of subjects, options at GSCE/A level, results, opportunities for sport/music/drama etc?

IS it in a good position financially - have you checked the accounts to see if it will survive the 7 years of your DDs education?

And beware, even the most nurturing of private schools have no qualms at asking DCs to leave for certain misdemeanors. And IME discipline is pretty strict as most parents don't appreciate forking out thousands for their DC to have their education disrupted by others misbehaving.