AIBU to tell you that I'm losing weight at 1900 calories?

[Talkingtopigeons]

This isn't a thread to boast/advertise I genuinely wanted to share something that has worked for me (that I'm still getting my head around!) and give a bit of hope for people in a similar position.

I'm early 40s, short (5ft 2) and a naturally petite frame, ie narrow shoulders and hips, small bust. I've never been significantly overweight, but as I've got older my weight has crept up and not in a particularly healthy way - it mainly goes on my stomach, I'm more of an apple than an hourglass. Because of my frame I fitted into small clothes sizes but I didn't feel great.

I would despair when I did calorie counting as all the calculators would tell me my maintenance was around 1500-1600 and to lose weight I had to be aiming for 1200-1350. I like my food. Living off that many calories turns you into the type of person who orders side dishes as mains, or eats half a banana, or lives permanently keto, or skips meals. There's no wriggle room on that level of calories in the long term.

I have done weight training on and off, but after listening to a podcast about why women should eat more when lifting, I realised that every time I've been into fitness I've also tried to eat healthily/cut out junk, which means every time I've been cutting calories at the same time.

So, this year I started weight training consistently and tried to eat the same as usual. I got stronger. My appetite increased. I didn't calorie count. I look a bit more 'toned' (not keen on that word, but what I mean is you wouldn't look at me and think I lift weights unless you look closely) I am wearing a larger clothes size on top because my arms/shoulders are a bit bigger but that's about it.

So after doing this for 6 months I started tracking my food, focusing on keeping my protein high but trying to guesstimate cutting calories a bit to try and get a bit leaner, ie keep the muscle but lose a bit of fat.

I started off aiming at 1800 calories and I lost weight too quickly, I've had to up it to 1950 and I am likely to go back up again soon.

I never thought that I could get to a point where I need 2000 calories a day. I am not a natural athlete, I was a scrawny kid, I'm short, I'm female, I'm over 40.

As a teenager in the 90s with all the heroin chic/deprivation being in fashion, this is a revelation. I feel better, my posture is better, I sleep better AND I can eat a slice of cake without having to skip a meal.

I know there's a weights section on here but just wanted to shout from the rooftops that eating 1300 calories forever isn't the only option!

What does a kettle bell exercise consist of?

I lose weight eating 1700-1800 calories. I'm tall but 60 and a type 1 diabetic. I don't enjoy exercising but do walk about 8000 steps a day and have two PT sessions a week (she's on holiday at the moment so how happy and I)!
I have friends with hollow legs, and a few that seem to gain weight just by glancing at a cake. So good you found what works for you.

I did exactly this and while I got stronger I also got substantially larger, as in going up nearly 2 dress sizes. I've dropped my calories now to 200 below my estimated tdee and I'm leaning out really nicely. It is very difficult for the average person to put on large amounts of muscle without an equivalent amount of fat, the process for building muscle just isn't efficient enough. That's why most people who do it seriously do bulk/cut cycles.

2850 calories over here 🤣

Lifting is the best, I wish more women would lift heavy.

So good to be hearing about women not starving themselves and making themselves smaller!

Anyone interested in at home weight training, Google Caroline Girvan. She’s brilliant.

Sorry I didn't mean to disappear from the thread, ended up being out in the sun all day!

Something I should have clarified in my first post is that I've only just started losing weight a little now, and losing weight on the scale isn't actually my goal - my goal is to keep muscle and lose a bit of bodyfat, hence putting my calories a bit higher and it is likely the scale number will stay around the same - but the tape measure tells a different story. I feel slimmer because my waist is smaller and I look better than I did before. I didn't lose any weight for the first six months, think I put on 1kilo.

In terms of my programme, the key for me only working out twice a week (I'll do three if I can but it's rare) is movements that work the whole body and using heavy weight. So it's based around very traditional moves - workout A is barbell squat, overhead barbell press, and one armed dumbbell row. Workout B is barbell deadlift, barbell bench, and dips. If I have time I'll throw in something else to keep it interesting (eg some core work or pull ups) but those are my key workouts. I aim for a bit of a warm up (do the exercise with light weight) then five sets of five reps. Once I get to the point of being able to do 8 reps l'll add more weight.

To caveat - I first learned those movements in my thirties so could do them in a safe way. When I was a complete beginner I struggled to hold an empty barbell (standard ones in a gym are 20kg) I started off with kettlebell deadlifts, dumbbell bench press and using a machine to do dips, and the other workout I used a dumbbell to do goblet squats, dumbbell row and dumbbell overhead press.

I do think a gym is key as while there are ways you can work with light weights, I don't think I would have had this muscle development without lifting heavy. And it is building muscle that is key. Its because I have more muscle on my body that I now need 2000+ calories a day. Its not about the calorie burn while exercising.

For learning the barbell exercises first time round I read starting strength by Mark Rippetoe (though I didn't use his programme as I felt pendlay rows and snatches were unnecessarily risky for an untrained beginner) However he gives a lot of detail about how to do barbell movements. And the podcast was MindPump 'why women should bulk'

I am sure there are plenty of people far more qualified than me on this thread already but I'm happy to answer questions if I can help anyone! These days it'd be much easier to find a PT in a standard gym who will show you these exercises. They're not actually that complicated so it's not like you'd need a pt every time, but I think a few sessions for any beginner is good, to assess if you have the mobility to do them and to help understand how to hold your body (esp your lower back) in a safe way.

OP “I didn't lose any weight for the first six months, think I put on 1kilo.”

pretty important info.

I can believe it! This is more of a lifestyle change - at 1900 calories, you're less likely to deprive yourself then binge.

I spent years crash dieting and sticking to 1,200 a day. Sure, I lost weight, but any deviation saw me gain an outrageous amount (to my mind then, anyway) of weight.

This is a much healthier approach.

I’ve just started CrossFit - I’m nearly 50. It’s amazing. Time flies in the class, I love the feeling I have afterwards and now I’m 6 weeks in, I can feel and see my body changing. Im stronger, more flexible and my body is gaining definition. I’m not calorie counting but I am concentrating on eating mostly food with less than 5 ingredients in and therefore cutting out a lot of processed foods.

@EmmaH2022 I appreciate what you're saying, but also during those first six months I lost inches and felt tonnes better. The scale was the same. I thought about the long game and knew that I had to build some muscle first (which means not losing weight on the scale) but I did lose an inch off my waist, and as I tend to keep fat on my stomach that was huge for me.

@BeautifulWar I agree! Its not that I want to eat a certain amount per day. But let's face it, if you're on 1300 calories, going out for a meal, a family gathering etc, is almost impossible. I love that I can socialise with friends and enjoy sharing food and not worrying.

@Arucanafeather I agree! I tried CrossFit and I enjoyed it to a point, but I've got pretty bad asthma so the intensity was a bit too much for me. The teacher I had gave me some great tips for mobility though. I have a funny thing about processed food - on the one hand I want to 'eat natural'; on the other hand I know cooking from scratch often keeps women in the kitchen! However I have settled on a compromise - I eat a lot of basic foods (batch cooked Dahl, baked potato with tuna and cottage cheese, arla yogurt with nuts) plus making use of ready marinated meat (love Tesco 'firepit/BBQ range) + veg. So keeping to relatively unprocessed while still keeping the convenience!

But how do I lift heavy? I want to but I seriously pull a muscle lifting a 2kg weight let alone a bar bell

How do you start? I'm not far over a normal weight - a little bit but not loads - and I know I need to develop strength but I don't know where to start

I agree you approach won't work for everyone.

But I do like your post as I ammm so sick and tired of the constant "ah, you are eating 1400 kcals a day, you reallly need to get down to 900. I was having 800 and it was great". Some of them have read really distrubingly.

@HardRockOwl what I mean by lifting heavy is lifting close to your limit, compared to say, lifting a really light weight 20 times over. I was much weaker than any of my peers were when they started, I have very little natural strength!
The thing is though, if you're eating enough, and have a healthy proportion of protein in your diet you will find very quickly that the amount of weight you can lift increases IF you can keep going consistently. The idea with weight training is 'progessive overload' so you start as low as you need to start, and you make it a bit harder every time you go.

So a beginner workout (assuming no injuries/safe to do etc) could be:

Warm up whatever way you prefer - could be 5 mins on a treadmill or rower, or doing some bodyweight squats or similar, just to get the blood flowing (once you are lifting at higher weights you would do warm up sets with light weights first)

Dumbbell shoulder press with 2kg dumbbells. Lift them 5 times. Put them down and rest for one minute. After the rest, repeat the set, rest again. Carry on until you've done 5 sets of five.

Goblet squat. Use a 5kg dumbbell, hold it with both hands, and do 5 squats. Rest and repeat.

Dumbbell row - same again, use the lightest dumbbell that you need.

Each time you go, if you feel you've got a bit more in the tank, try adding another rep, or making the exercise a bit harder by slowing your movement down. Once you've got to the point that you feel you can do 5x8 of that weight, next time you go, pick up a slightly heavier dumbbell. Even if you only use it for one or two sets, keep trying each week until you can use it for 5x5, and eventually 5x8. Once you get to the point that you're using 10kg or 12kg dumbbells, have a go with barbell on its own (NB some gyms might have women's specific barbells which are 15kg)

If you see plastic barbells with fixed weights on them, (they're usually shorter) personally I'd ignore them. A reason to aim for barbells eventually is that you can use them with a rack, on hooks, where you can adjust the height. To do this you need a standard length barbell. For example, most people can squat with more weight from a rack, compared to if they had to lift it onto their shoulders from the floor. Most racks also have 'spotter arms' which are a safety feature - you set them at a height so that say if you're doing a barbell squat or bench press and it's too hard, you can drop the weight and the arms will catch it. Not that anyone should be pushing to quite that limit but it's definitely good to be safe if you're lifting on your own.

I can honestly remember being excited in a gym when I started using 8kg dumbbells, because it meant I could pick them from the black set and not the pink/purple ones that were aimed at women for more cardio/aerobics type workouts. These days I'm still not strong compared to many women who train, but I can deadlift 75kg, bench 40kg, squat 60kg. On a personal level it means I can carry my shopping home, no longer have to ask DH to come with me to the garden centre if I want to buy compost... Many of the women in my family have had issues with osteoporosis so keeping up strength now is important to me.

Oh and I will admit I was so nervous about the weights area at the gym I used to spend my time using the dumbbells and watching what the guys were doing with the barbells - where they got the plates from, how they adjusted the racks, how they secured the weights with collars etc - so that when I eventually had a go I hoped I looked like I knew what I was doing! These days though it is far more likely you would see other women in the weights area, and gym staff are much more receptive to women asking for advice about how to use the equipment.

Ps sorry for the wall of text and please don't think what I was suggesting is the only way to do it, I wrote something deliberately prescriptive as a 'how to' example. I really hope you give weight training a try!

I always think it's a shame that most women turn to cardio for weight loss when weight are so much more effective AND extra muscle increases BMR so you can eat a lot more at goal and not gain weight as easily.

Well done, you!!

@notsureaboutthatreally similar-ish sort of program as described by @izzy2076. Everything would be between 6 & 12 reps. 6 at the higher weights stated and 12 reps at the lowest weight stated. Some combination of:
Push: bench press 25-40kg
Press ups** 10-15
Shoulder press 8-12kg each hand, Dumbbell Elevated press 10-17.5kg each,
raises and chest squeezes 5-6kg
Flies 5-8kg
Tricep work
I've stalled on chest and shoulder day as I have really bad hormonal shoulders. Pain.
Pull: cable pulls, Face Pulls
Bent over single arm rows 20-30kg
Bent over double rows 18-20kg
Lat pull downs 30-40kg
Various types of bicep curls
Leg: KB deficit squats 36-42kg
BB squats 40-70kg
RDLs 50-60kg
Weighted lunges of various kinds 8-15kg each hand
Sumo squats 36-42k
Hip thrusts 90-125kg
Leg press 80-130kg
KB swings 28kg I think
Various body weight and resistance band exercises
Calf raises and other small muscles sometimes when I'm faffing
I've just listed some to give you an idea. I work really hard but I'm still carrying too much body fat.
Lift heavy (for me) 3x week
1 day Pilates
1 day HIIT
1 day whole body lighter weights higher reps and mobility
And I walk 3x week for 1-1.5 hours at a sweaty pace. Other days I walk 39/49 mins
Pissed of that since peri menopause I have packed on fat and have a horrible big belly 😿

That sounds really impressive @deedledeedledum!

Well done op! YANBU.

I have been losing at around 1800 cals. Not sure how much but clothes feel great again and my double chin has receded.

I also lift and do hiit.

In general I use about 2300 a day I think.

I really think that if you can afford it, get someone to teach you as technique is everything. I spent months years ago, thinking I could squat and even went up to 100kg...except I was doing it wrong and wasn't going to parallel. Technique is everything and once the penny drops your muscle memory will kick in and you'll never need to pay anyone again.

I'm just so pissed off that I don't have the body I think I work hard for. Don't get me wrong, I look a whole lot better than I would if I didn't do all this but I still have a big belly and I am still about 10kg body fat overweight. I can't deal with counting macros. I just can't. I don't eat much bready stuff as i and coeliac do no pasta. Very little GF bread. I eat pretty healthily but menopause just whacked me into chub land 😢

@StaunchMomma thanks! I think the message is a bit different for the younger generation about strength, though there's still a way to go. It has taken me a while to change my perception that eating healthily doesn't have to mean eating less.

@deedledeedledum that's really impressive! I'm not menopausal yet, and I know that's going to be difficult - I am hoping that if I can get this foundation in now that it might help me in the long run.

@actiongirl1978 love the username, and great work!

@izzy2076 I agree that if someone can get a PT it definitely helps, but it is possible if you can't. When I first learnt these lifts (over ten years ago) I had the money but couldn't find anyone! One PT kept taking me over to the machines - as if I need to pay £25 for someone to stand over me while I use a machine that literally has a instructional diagram on the front of it. Another only chose exercises that needed a spotter, ie so that I would have to keep paying him to train. The next one I really pushed back on because I was tired of wasting my money, and he repeatedly told me that there was no point teaching me free weights 'because for it to be worthwhile you need to lift six days a week and you're clearly not going to do that so theres no point'. Patronising idiot.
As I said these days trainers are much more receptive to training women in free weights. I suspect the ones I met didn't have the knowledge/confidence to actually teach, but none of them assessed me or listened.

Ironically since using free weights I realised that the machines - that those guys thought I should be using because I was a girl - weren't any good for me because of my size. With a barbell I can adjust my hand position to work for my shoulder width, rack the bar at a height that suits me. Can't do that on fixed machines. Half the time I couldn't properly reach the floor!

op - I love this thread. Thank you x

I am still working my way through apps to find the perfect one for the gym. So far using Alice Liveing ‘home’ but in the gym seems my best fit. But open to suggestions!

@deedledeedledum same! 49 and it's just hit me in the last year! I'm blaming HRT! I have accumulated chub on my stomach and arms and like you, cannot be arsed to track my macros. On the flip side, I am solid rather than flabby thanks to lifting.

@Talkingtopigeons yes the 6 days a week is rubbish. The guy who runs my gym (building gym) was a celebrity bodybuilder back in the 80s and says 3 x a week for 45 minutes is fine. It's how you use it. I never do over 50 mins of lifting.