Feeling overlooked and ignored at times. School gate specifically! Why?

[Bien22]

Just as the tithe says really. It’s a trivial thing but I am just wondering. This mainly seems to happen at my DC’s school events really but i have recently noticed that I am frequently overlooked when giving an opinion (I say things quietly) , if waiting for something, others seem to push in front of me and get served first. I think it isn’t really worth speaking up (in the school ice cream sale, as an example). I sometimes get ignored when waiting in a small group for DC to come out . I can be assertive in my personal, work and home life when needed(rarely though) but like to be polite too and am pretty reserved with people I don’t know why. Is this why? Just too many people at school gates? Or could it be my body language/ demeanour?

How do you hold your ground and stay polite? Being well-mannered is kind of more important to me than getting served first if you see what I mean.

Thinking about it, I probably come across as pretty meek, mild and physically small so some people take advantage of that - I think I may look a bit childlike in some ways. . When actually, I hold quite strong opinions and ideas. Similar thing when served in restaurants and cafes. The staff tend to defer to DH if I am with him or other people if in a group.

Bit of a ramble, does this make sense to anyone? Any advice On being more ‘seen and heard’ would be appreciated. 🙂

My advice is to keep being unseen. Drop and go at the gate. There's a very strange world at the gate. In time you meet a parent or two who are nice.

Thanks @Londonrach1 i have thought that, it can be very strange kind of pack mentality behaviour at times.

Have to agree with Londonrach1 keep to yourself, YOU choose who you want to speak to rather than you waiting to be spoken to or to be invited in.

Some of the worst people I know are mothers in cliques. You may not realise it but doing your own thing in your own way , polite and patient, is being strong. Some people may admire the dog eat dog mentality, but some admire the quiet determined people who just get on and do without needing a crowd to cheer them on and you sound like one of people.

There's a few extroverts who can work the crowd and then everybody else who probably feel exactly the same way as you do. Make effort with the people you know you'll get on with and be simply polite with the rest.

Unless there's someone you want to be friends with stay as you are! The school gate culture is weird, competitive (for what?), bitchy, nosey, showing off - a lot like immature children really. I would have a think about bring more assertive though so you are appropriately role modelling to your children.

I agree with londonrach too, you need to speak up

but I HATE the term “cliques”. In reality, it just means “friendship groups” and usually women. There is nothing wrong with women being friends with others and speaking to each other, especially at the school gate. It doesn’t mean you’re excluded.

I find people that moan about cliques are often passively waiting to be invited to participate but never organise things themselves.

If I was still at the school gates, I think I would really warm to you
You sound like just the type of person I would gravitate to, not the mouthy bolshy clique. Like an extension of school really. I had big groups of friends, but my favourite people were just like you.
Sorry, no advice except keep being you

Thank you, everyone. Very kind comments! 🙂

I am going to work on being less affected by bolshiness (most days don’t affect me at all but a few it just gets to me) and also being assertive when warranted eg ‘Sorry, I think I was next’. As PP said to role model that to DC so they don’t get walked over in life. I sometimes see myself as less ‘worthy’ than others of people’s time and attention, if that makes sense. So need to work on that a bit. I live in quite a showy area where appearances are important to some people and style over substance rules for them and I don’t like that attitude.
I might sound up myself here but overall would like to keep calm and (somewhat🤣, at times) classy with my behaviour and just focus on those I would like to be friends with.
In the grand scheme of things, none of this matters…but it kinda does to me!!
Sometimes it really reminds me of ‘Motherland’!

Nah its a clique when you can hear them bitching and gossiping about everyone very loudly in the playground.

Trust me where I live, no one is chatting politely about the cake sale or the latest fete.

I think you've had a lucky escape😜I'm a nanny and at the school the kids I look after go to (private) only a very few select parents speak to me or other nannies, obviously looking down their noses at us because we're just lowly nannies and I really couldn't give a shit, they're not the kind of people I want to talk to anyway with that kind of snobbery. I know it's different when you're the mum though, but I really wouldn't let it bother you.

A lot of it can be body language do you hunch over, cross your arms across your body, avoid eye contact? A lot of the time people don’t even realise they are doing this but it closes them off from others as people pick up these subtle signs unconsciously.

I’ve only been doing the school run for a year but I’m amazed at the number of people who can’t even muster up a good morning or a smile as you dash past each other dropping the kids off, personally I just think that’s being polite. The pick up is where more chat happens, I’m pretty chatty but if people don’t make an effort and come across as closed off either body language wise or being unable to engage in basic social niceties I leave them to it!

Agree with @Londonrach1 …really sensible advice and so true!
I can guarantee that the clique unfriendly groups all disperse once the children move on to secondary school. The competitiveness gets the better of them ,particularly if the secondary schools are sort after ….!
Stick to your good solid friends and just keep your head down at the school gate .
I still have a few friends from primary school but they were in different year groups ,don’t know each other and have common interests that are not linked with school.

Hi OP,

If you want to be invisible, that's great - go for it. I think it can be a great choice at the school gate, and I go for that option often to avoid getting dragged into stuff.

However, if you don't want to, it's a pretty easy fix. There is obvious stuff about slightly adjusting your dress to be maybe bolder colours, slightly smarter, more formal, less rumpled,., but most of it tends to be posture.

Stand up straight, shoulders back, with equal balance on both feet. I find it's very cantering to imagine your hip area is grounded, with a strong connection right into the earth. Breathe slower and deeper from your diaphragm. This will make you look more confident and also give your voice more authoratitive depth.

It can also help to imagine there is a string attached to the top of your head going up to pass over a hook in the ceiling and back down to you... just imagine gently tugging on the string so you are using your full height and looking outwards not down.

Then there is being open to the world - a mental attitude but reflected in making eye contact for example, in a cafe with whoever should be serving you.

Then what do you actually say? Make sure you aren't using lots of diminishers (we women are often brought up to)....stuff like "could I just..." "not sure if,... but maybe..." "I'm just a little unsure whether..." or phrasing things as questions when actually they should be statements. Keep sentences relatively short and lean on key words, with eye contact.

I guess I'm going into this because it sounds a bit like you feel 'being seen/noticeable' is an innate quality you have or you don't have,.. whereas I would suggest it comes down to actual actions. The visual, verbal and vocal cues you send about whether you deserve and are comfortable with attention. You suggest that deep down, you're not sure you are. And probably right now, you are communicating that in how you dress, stand, move, speak etc...

As I said totally totally fine to do that if you want. And the school gate really doesn't matter much. But if it bothers you, you can do concrete things to change it... it can actually help change how you feel inside too.

I don’t get queues at school gates tbh. I’ve tried to queue but then just end up standing there at the end while everyone else gets their kids much faster. If you have more than 1 kid you need to make yourself visible. Some parents who stand at the end just look non committed on their phone or just staring at their shoes and I guess they are just anxious or not in a hurry whereas if I see my both kids out I won’t just be standing there at the end on my phone waiting for the queue to pass anymore. Also from my experience again people are worried about cliques but I’ve not really experienced that. I speak to everyone who wants to speak to me. But it’s easier to speak to people who visibly want to speak to you, it’s much harder if someone is on their phone, not making eye contact, not smiling etc. I always say hi to people and so many times people not responded and just passed me without looking. I know they just not heard me etc and not even tried to look which is bizarre when you know you’re on a group where you know people. I suspect they’d be the ones then thinking people are in cliques.

Think yourself lucky at the school gates, it's another world & not always a nice one. I had the opposite problem at times as others seemed to gravitate to me in the playground, I got so sick & tired of listening to them whinging about how exhausted they were, when I was dealing with an energy illness that was flooring me at the time. & don't get me started on how they spoke about their kids & often in front of them too

As far as been heard when needed, as my wise old Nana used to say. If you want to be heard ... speak up. Strong, firm voice needed & it works

I’ sometimes think Im invisible. It’s annoying, like you I am small, quiet and softly spoken, I also stutter which doesn’t help. I get ignored, talked over, I could be you.
If I raise my voice to be heard Ive been accused of shouting,
Waiting to be served a M&S returns counter, next in line, the bloke behind me shouted ‘‘Me’ when the assistant asked who was next.. she walked past me to serve him. I spoke up” Am I invisible? I was next”. She apologised and served me but it still rankled. Ordering food or drinks at cafes, bars I’m sometimes either ignored, they take my order but miss something off.
Until DH witnessed what happened in M&S and other places since he couldn’t understand it at times. Well he wouldn’t, he’s 6’2” and a man.
He’s my advocate, he said ‘ watch me next time we go out and learn’ … I’m learning.. I now speak up louder, queues I keep an eye out for queue jumpers, I close the gap by stepping forward, or put my hand on the bar to form a barrier. I point to whatever I want at the same time as giving my order verbally or if that’s not an option I’ll repeat it. subtle but effective. It still happens now and again but I speak up now

I keep my head down for this reason. I don’t want to get drawn into a clique, I don’t want to join the PTA, I don’t want to help out with a bake sale (especially after reading on here about the quantity of those who buy and dump), I don’t want to make friends, I don’t want to get drawn into the weird competitive thing (wtf are they even competing about?), I don’t want to join some various non-important campaign, and I don’t want to be in the ‘inner circle’ of mums who go for coffee after drop off.

I drop off with my head down and hang back at collection.

Not related specifically to your OP, but I always wonder about people who complain about cliques at the school gates - surely people are allowed to hang out with their friends while waiting to pick up their kids, the other parents aren't there to entertain everyone else. I feel like people who assume that school gate time should be a social opportunity for them are overthinking the situation, you are all just there to pick up your kids ultimately.

OP, why do you want to be noticed at the school gate? I guess from what you say as coming across as across and meek and mild and speaking in a quiet voice might be making people think you are so shy that you'd rather be left alone? If school pickups are making you feel uncomfortable though, I'd wear a pair of headphones and lose myself in an audio book for those few minutes. Or if you really want to make friends with the other parents, join the PTA and get to know people that way or any other volunteering opportunities at school could work.

Looks like most people aren't reading the OP, just read "school gate" and jumped to conclusions.

OP isn't asking about making friends or "cliques", her post was about being pushed out of the way/queue jumped, and asking for advice on how to come across as less meek and invisible in general.

You are at school for your kids not your social life. I am not saying this to be rude, but if you lower your expectations you won’t be disappointed. That’s not to say that many good, lifelong friendships aren’t made there- but the best friendships grow slowly. However, do smile at people and talk to them- they might be feeling exactly the same!

@BraveGoldie @byvirtue yes, I think body language plays a big role as nvc is meant to be about 70% of the way you come across, isn’t it?

I am not at all meek really and actually quietly strong in many ways but being in that situation seems to bring something out in me. It isn’t about cliques just some kind of insecurity that I think I have carried with me since my own schooldays and thought I was over. I am perhaps overthinking but I want to work on myself so thanks 🙏 for all the replies as helps me to reflect. But just going to get on with it and mainly ignore anything annoying. 😅

@Thinkingblonde Your story about M and S is what I mean really. I don’t get overlooked as much now but noticed DH gets treated more professionally as a general rule and with more respect/courtesy, if that makes sense. I s’pose I have learnt from him to hold my space more and maintain eye contact which helps. I think it could be an example of unconscious bias towards males and females in our case. I don’t expect to be treated like the Queen by the way or get special treatment, just decent. Sometimes, I may be worrying about myself too much and remind myself that maybe people who are rude/dismissive etc have either had a really bad day or life event or just don’t know any better/ don’t care. It takes all sorts to make a world.

phew, that was long typing on my phone!!

@Theoneinthemiddle very true!

Funny I was just reading a other thread on here about someone who hates being chatted to at the school gates and wanted advice on how to get away from the other mums.

😅yes, I should be careful what I wish for!

going to stop posting now but thanks very much, all.

@Bonjovispjs , some of the school mums there sound like hideous snobs. Looking after children well is a really important job.

I was going to say it might be your quiet voice. DS had a similar problem. He would get upset because he felt ignored but in fact we just didn't hear him when there was a hubbub.