Landlord deposit deductions help

[Sl2107]

Hi everyone,

this is my first time posting on her but I need some advice.

We recently ended a tenancy of a property we have lived in for the past 4 years. We had a break clause that meant we could give two months notice at any time. Our landlords have always been lovely but since saying we want to go they have started to be picky. Our tenancy was due to end on the 30th of July but we moved out on the 27th of June as that was when our new tenancy started (couldn’t push it back).

the landlord sent us an email to say he will let us hand the keys back on the 15th July instead of 30th which meant we only had to pay another two weeks rent and then a load of other things about how he thinks our respect for his property has diminished even though we have had walls re plastered, laid new flooring in the living room as when we moved in it had slate tiles which was freezing!, but then he went on to say that if the property isn’t up to scratch he will then charge the extra rent from the 15th to 30th as well as make deductions from the deposit if he needs to. We have kept the house in good shape apart from one carpet was a bit stained which has now been professionally cleaned but my main question is, can he actually charge us rent for two weeks we don’t have the keys for the property after telling us we can leave on the 15th? I have never had this before when leaving a rented property and never had any issues with getting a deposit back but I feel like they are going to be difficult.

sorry it’s a bit long winded!

Did you have a photographic inventory? Presume he know about an agreed to replacing the plaster and flooring.

once he’s agreed with you the date of move out he cannot change that. Is your deposit legally protected? It should be otherwise you can take action against him.

if it is, let him take whatever action to recover the costs he thinks is reasonable. The first step is dispute resolution through a neutral third party in which he needs to prove he has suffered a material loss as a result of your actions. Things he could claim your deposit for could be broken windows, significant damage to carpets. He cannot claim for wear and tear of items. You and he will need full checkin and checkout reports from move in and move out including dated photos. If these don’t exist the ruling will automatically fall in your favour. Even if you have damaged some items, dispute resolution is heavily weighted in favour of tenant and you likely won’t have to pay back much

you were a bit silly to make changes at your own personal expense though, make sure you keep a record of him agreeing to those or he could be a dick and ask you to return them as you moved in

No. The landlord cannot charge you rent for a time when he accepted the keys from you and you vacated the property.

Did you have permission to change the flooring and have the walls replastered?
Is your deposit protected and do you have an inventory?

Some landlords know exactly how to play the deposit protection schemes and will walk away with every penny, every time. Some tenants do too.

Sorry was supposed to say, Yeah he agreed to us changing the floor and doing the plastering! At the time we didn’t mind as we lived there and it didn’t cost us too much. His floor is still underneath and isn’t damaged so we can take it up if he wants that back to its original state. We have never changed or done anything without getting it in writing. Our deposit is protected yeah thankfully.

So they are first time landlords and it’s the only property they let out so I don’t believe he is fully ul to scratch with what he can’t and can’t do.

Wr did get an inventory yes it has a few pictures nothing too details but that’s what I’m basing my check out on!

I didn’t think he could take rent after taking the keys. It’s all in writing that he agrees to let us out on the 15th too. Thanks everyone

If deposit is protected just dispute any unfair deductions, you’ll be fine.

I'm an inventory clerk and if your ingoing inventory is light in detail then he will have a hard time proving any losses.

Depending on what was agreed about the changes you made he may also be changing you agreement. And you can't go back in now, you have given up the tenancy, with his agreement.

Get him to put everything in writing, including the financial compensations he is asking for and then tell him what you disagree with and why (including copies of his texts, emails etc) and open up a dispute. Let the arbitration scheme deal with it.

If they are new to letting they will get a good education from the arbitrator - who usually take a dim view of amateur landlords.

The tenancy deposit scheme they've lodged it with will help you. You do know which one it is?

Dispute any deductions if they seem unfair. After 4 years almost anything will be considered fair wear and tear. He’s being greedy.

Not sure about the final date but if he’s charging you until 30th then keep the keys and don’t allow access. He can’t have it both ways- he’s probably planning to redecorate or something.

Thanks everyone. @ThreeLittleDots The deposit is protected with the DPS I did contact them but they said they don’t deal with anything outside of disputes. I wasn’t sure who else I could contact as I haven’t come across a landlord trying to charge rent for a time period after you have handed the keys back. I don’t want to give them back to him on the 15th and then be made to pay rent for two more weeks as I would then want the keys back.

The inventory is really light @SamphirethePogoingStickerist Just quite far away pictures only half the carpets of the bedrooms are shown and things like that.

@MatildaTheCat he is being greedy. He wanted all the carpets professionally cleaning as he thinks they are ‘filthy’ which is a joke, they weren’t new when we moved in and the only thing that’s wrong with them is they have work in high traffic areas like the stairs and around the bed! We had the spare room one cleaned today as I did spill something on it and you could still see the stain but I don’t want to pay for things that are wear and tear as that just benefits him in the end and not me!

If you have a look online I think LL have to expect to replace carpet every 6 years. So unless he can prove they were brand new when you moved in he’s on a sticky wicket. If however he’s not charging you for damage and he can prove he had had the carpet professionally cleaned when you moved in then yes, ( subject to contract) he probably can claim for that. In disputes like this the tenant is almost always in a stronger position.

Not sure about the final date but if he’s charging you until 30th then keep the keys and don’t allow access.

Dont keep the keys. You have it in writing he agreed to you vacating on the 15th, so you hand the keys in on the 15th. If you keep them that is over-staying beyond the written agreement and he can charge you rent for every day he doesn’t get the keys back.

Make sure you have really good photographs showing how clean and well cared for the rest of the property is and make sure some of them are from exactly the same angle as the original inventory ones for direct comparison. If those are all he has then he won’t be able to claim that you have ruined stuff because he can’t prove how things looked before your tenancy. Cancel the direct debit and your initial deposit should be safe.

I don't quite understand your OP

Haven't you already paid for your last month's rent? How is he going to charge you more when you are the ones in control of the money that is sent to him?

If he's planning to take the "extra rent" out of your deposit then you can easily dispute this through the TDS and let them handle it.

If you have 2 months notice in your contract and your landlord hasn't agreed to let you out sooner then you're liable for 2 months whether you're living there or not.

What date you write to your landlord (email or otherwise) to give your 2 months notice?

Also, I would never do any improvements to accommodation I was renting because (1) you're pissing money away and (2) you're meant to leave the property how it was when you went in. If you have written permission from your landlord that you can make these changes and they try to subtract from your deposit because of it then again submit all the evidence to TDS in a dispute and let them deal with it.

@scubad so we paid the last months rent on the 1st of July which was 2 weeks rent up until the 15th. This is why I was confused! We informed them two months before leaving (we had a break clause in the contract that either party could give 12 months) which would take the date to July 30th. He then sent an email a few days after showing some prospective tenants round to say he would let us leave on the 15th. His exact words in writing are ‘The payment for the final months’ rent (July) will be £288.49. [Daily rate of £19.23 x 15 days]

If it’s not returned in a fit state you will still be liable up to 30th July 2022 and I will need to make deductions from your deposit to make right any elements that are not right.’. This was the only bit that confused me. I wasn’t sure if he could actually charge the rest of the months rent if we have handed the keys back!

We haven’t done anything without permission in writing so I’m not worried about that really it was more the confusion with the rent!

@Discovereads definitely giving the keys back on the 15th I don’t want to give him any reason to charge us anymore than we have paid. He has been a great landlord up until we have put in our notice it’s really frustrating we have always been good tenants

If it’s not returned in a fit state you will still be liable up to 30th July 2022 and I will need to make deductions from your deposit to make right any elements that are not right.’

Yeah, your LL is wrong. He can only deduct damage from your damage deposit. He can’t ever charge you rent for the void period where he makes repairs (whether caused by your damage or not). He may try, but then you go to TDS with a dispute and he will lose.

I reckon the new tenants want to move in earlier and he's trying to have his cake and eat it. So he's planning to charge you regardless and move the new tenants in sooner.

I'd go back to him saying something like 'we appreciate the flexibility but we don't want to make things messy by conflating the notice period and any disagreements over the condition of the property. So we'll stick to the agreed date of 30 July, and deal with the issue of any deductions from the deposit in the usual way via the protection schemes'

@JassyRadlett I think you are right. The house was up for rent £150 a month more than we pay now might I add and within a day of him showing people round it said let agreed. He reckons he has gone through a property management scheme so it’s taking longer but I do believe he has tenants moving in next week otherwise why would he say we can leave two weeks earlier it doesn’t make any sense we were more than happy to pay until the 30th we didn’t ask for him to let us leave early

Definitely cannot take rent once he has possession and after you have lawfully terminated. So refuse to pay. If deposit is not properly protected in a tenancy deposit scheme, consider taking action as you can get up to 3 x deposit for failure to protect. Otherwise, if it is, he should go through the scheme to challenge the deposit being returned and set out what he thinks should be deducted which you can respond to. Hopefully you took photos of the property before you left.

Ah hang on so the notice you gave was to terminate on 30th July? LL said you could instead move out on 15th if you wanted but the terms of that agreed lesser period was provided the property was in a fit state? That's a bit different to how the OP read. If he caveated allowing earlier vacating of the property on the basis that it is in a fit state I.e. he doesnt then need to spend time after 30th sorting it then that seems to be the basis for the agreed shorter term. Otherwise your notice allows you to leave, and requires rent to be paid, to 30th it seems. You should be allowed in possession though the whole time you've paid so if on 15th he thinks it isnt on a fit state you should be allowed continued access til 30th.

@Newmumatlast yeah we ended the tenancy on the 30th May which means the last day would be 30th July all that was agreed and then he sent a random email saying we could leave on the 15th July instead. I’m not bothered about paying up until the 30th, I’m just a bit confused how he can take the keys and then take more rent. We will just have to see what he says on Friday. I just don’t want to pay rent if I don’t have the keys because he could easily let someone else move in take rent off us and rent off someone else for the same month.

"He wanted all the carpets professionally cleaning as he thinks they are ‘filthy’ which is a joke, they weren’t new when we moved in and the only thing that’s wrong with them is they have work in high traffic areas like the stairs and around the bed!"

In the house I rent out, my expectation is that if the carpets were professionally cleaned shortly before the tenants come in, then they are cleaned to the same standard by the tenant when leaving.

In the past, sometimes the outgoing tenant paid for the cleaning, sometimes I did (e.g. if I used the void period for decoration and repairs).

This is nothing to do with the age of the carpets or wear and tear though, it's health and hygiene. Some of my carpets are 20+ years old and still in good condition.

Regardless of what date you said when you originally gave notice, you have subsequently come to an agreement with the LL for the tenancy to end on the 15th. You have that in writing so hand the keys back then.

He can't decide to charge you up to the 30th on the basis of the property condition, it doesn't work like that. So disregard that. If he wants to make deductions they need to come from your deposit.

As soon as the tenancy is up, log on to the deposit scheme and request the return of the deposit. The LL is supposed to inform you within 10 days of anything he wants to deduct.

Before you leave, take photos of everything and everywhere so you have a detailed record of condition.

After 4 years, an awful lot would fall under fair wear and tear and deposit scheme would likely side with you. If anything has been damaged remember they can only charge a proportion which is worked out by how long would be left of its lifespan (eg if you had completely wrecked a carpet, but it was a cheap carpet with a 5 year lifespan, they can only charge you 1/5 of the replacement as you've been there 4 years.)

If you don't agree with his proposed deductions then you can take it to free adjudication at the deposit scheme. Good luck.

You should be aware that under the tenant fees act 2019, you cannot stipulate that a tenant pays for professional cleaning. You can ask the carpets to be cleaned to the same standard but it's up to the tenant as to how they achieve that.

All rentals Iv lived in had to have carpets professionally cleaned before leaving, some also wanted professional clean. It's not unusual.
My own home now I get carpets cleaned once a year.