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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Landlord deposit deductions help

98 replies

Sl2107 · 13/07/2022 14:58

Hi everyone,

this is my first time posting on her but I need some advice.

We recently ended a tenancy of a property we have lived in for the past 4 years. We had a break clause that meant we could give two months notice at any time. Our landlords have always been lovely but since saying we want to go they have started to be picky. Our tenancy was due to end on the 30th of July but we moved out on the 27th of June as that was when our new tenancy started (couldn’t push it back).

the landlord sent us an email to say he will let us hand the keys back on the 15th July instead of 30th which meant we only had to pay another two weeks rent and then a load of other things about how he thinks our respect for his property has diminished even though we have had walls re plastered, laid new flooring in the living room as when we moved in it had slate tiles which was freezing!, but then he went on to say that if the property isn’t up to scratch he will then charge the extra rent from the 15th to 30th as well as make deductions from the deposit if he needs to. We have kept the house in good shape apart from one carpet was a bit stained which has now been professionally cleaned but my main question is, can he actually charge us rent for two weeks we don’t have the keys for the property after telling us we can leave on the 15th? I have never had this before when leaving a rented property and never had any issues with getting a deposit back but I feel like they are going to be difficult.

sorry it’s a bit long winded!

OP posts:
Original poster
Sl2107 · 13/07/2022 20:01

@filka the carpets weren’t professionally cleaned before we moved in and there is nothing in the tenancy agreement that states they need to be professionally cleaned before we leave. It’s not down to me to clean them for health and hygiene reasons, it’s my responsibility they are clean with no marks excluding general wear and tear.

@Silverfinch I didn’t think he could charge the rent on the basis of the the property condition. I am logging everything with plenty of photos. 4 years is a while for things to wear and we have always looked after the property. I’m hoping it doesn’t come to a dispute but we will see.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sl2107 · 13/07/2022 20:04

@Hankunamatata i don’t disagree that it’s unusual it just isn’t in the tenancy agreement for me to do that, and it wasn’t done before I moved in.

OP posts:
Silverfinch · 13/07/2022 20:55

Again, since 2019 it is not lawful for a landlord to insist upon professional cleaning (be that carpets or in general). It doesn't matter what the contract says.

filka · 14/07/2022 07:05

@Silverfinch "you cannot stipulate that a tenant pays for professional cleaning. You can ask the carpets to be cleaned to the same standard"

That's exactly what I said...

Silverfinch · 14/07/2022 08:15

filka · 14/07/2022 07:05

@Silverfinch "you cannot stipulate that a tenant pays for professional cleaning. You can ask the carpets to be cleaned to the same standard"

That's exactly what I said...

And went on to say that sometimes the tenant paid for the cleaning and sometimes you did, which suggests they were being professionally cleaned.

Are you quite clear to your tenants that they don't have to pay to have them professionally cleaned?

Discovereads · 14/07/2022 09:47

FWIW in my experience as a tenant you de facto have to pay to have carpets professionally cleaned when you move out. If you don’t have that receipt at check out, the estate agent/LL simply decide the carpets are “not cleaned to a professional standard” and deduct the cost of having them cleaned as damages from your deposit. And as many estate agents have pass through costs, you end up paying an extra £50 of so than if you’d arranged to have them cleaned yourself. And you can’t really prove to TDS just what standard carpets are cleaned to in a dispute, so it is useless to dispute it really.

Original poster
Sl2107 · 14/07/2022 12:33

@Discovereads it’s not through an estate agent, just the guy on his own. They weren’t professionally cleaned before we moved in and there is nothing in the tenancy to say they should be cleaned to a professional standard.

I want to leave the property in the same state I rented it. I don’t believe it’s my job to pay for things that will benefit the landlord and leave it in a better state than when i moved in.

OP posts:
Discovereads · 14/07/2022 12:42

@Sl2107
Sorry, I was talking in general to the other posters. I agree in your situation as they were not cleaned professionally before you moved in, you shouldn’t have to clean them to professional standard when moving out.

Original poster
Sl2107 · 14/07/2022 12:45

@Discovereads sorry I thought you were directing it at me! I will be glad to give the keys back tomorrow and it be over with

OP posts:
meercat23 · 14/07/2022 12:51

Sl2107 · 14/07/2022 12:33

@Discovereads it’s not through an estate agent, just the guy on his own. They weren’t professionally cleaned before we moved in and there is nothing in the tenancy to say they should be cleaned to a professional standard.

I want to leave the property in the same state I rented it. I don’t believe it’s my job to pay for things that will benefit the landlord and leave it in a better state than when i moved in.

If the Landlord tries to charge deductions for professional carpet cleaning when the carpets were not cleaned at the start of the tenancy, the deposit agency managing any dispute would not allow that deduction. That would be betterment. On the other hand, cleaning issues are not wear and tear and if the carpets can be shown to be significantly dirtier than when you moved in they may award a proportion of the cost of cleaning.

From what you have said about the Inventory it does not sound detailed enough to allow anyone to draw this conclusion.

catndogslife · 14/07/2022 12:58

Any deductions from the deposit have to be approved by the company that hold the deposit. Without a detailed inventory from the start of the tenancy and given that it is 4 years, your landlord is unreasonable to expect there to be no wear and tear.
Unpaid rent can be claimed from a deposit and only paying for 2 week's rather than a month is unusual. However if you have it in writing that the landlord has agreed to this beforehand, the deposit holding company would probably not agree to this.
It hasn't been said already, but make sure that you take meter readings for all utilities on the 15th July as well.

Original poster
Sl2107 · 14/07/2022 13:01

@meercat23 the inventory definitely isn’t detailed enough. The carpet that I would say is worn the most is the stairs and landing understandably and there is no picture at all of this on the inventory so I think we will be ok. They definitely aren’t dirty with no stains apart from a stain that was there when we moved in which is mentioned on the inventory!

OP posts:
Original poster
Sl2107 · 19/07/2022 18:22

Not sure if anyone cares but we handed the keys back and he has sent us an email with all sorts he thinks are wrong with the house / garden then said he was out of the country for two weeks so won’t be updating the deposit protection scheme on how much he believes he needs back from our deposit until then!

OP posts:
Silverfinch · 19/07/2022 19:14

That's not really good enough. You should request the return of the deposit yourself now through the deposit protection scheme...if he doesn't at least respond with proposed deductions within 10 days, the scheme will not look upon him favourably if you decide to go to arbitration down the line.

Request it back.

ShirleyPhallus · 19/07/2022 19:19

Yeah that’s utter bullshit, request it back now.

And a tip - do NOT make any offers based on being reasonable / meeting him half way, he’ll take that as a sign of accepting responsibility and push his way on other issues.

Silverfinch · 19/07/2022 19:35

ShirleyPhallus · 19/07/2022 19:19

Yeah that’s utter bullshit, request it back now.

And a tip - do NOT make any offers based on being reasonable / meeting him half way, he’ll take that as a sign of accepting responsibility and push his way on other issues.

This.

Whatever he wants deductions for - alleged damage, or cleanliness - after 4 years you have a very strong case for it all being wear and tear. Even things like dirty grout (not saying yours was) or stained carpets could be argued to be wear and tear after 4 years. He can't reasonably claim for anything like chipped woodwork or marks on walls because after 4 years it would be expected that he would be redecorating.

So don't agree to any deductions, just say you want to take it to arbitration.

FamilyAreEverything · 19/07/2022 19:36

You must request the return of your deposit in full from the DPS. The landlord will then have to submit his deductions and the DPS will decide. From previous experience, if you have good photographic evidence of how you left the property, including the garden, and he has poor photographic evidence from the inventory, then he hasn’t a leg to stand on and the DPS should rule in your favour.

As with a PP, absolutely do not offer anything other then your request for a full return of your deposit.

Original poster
Sl2107 · 19/07/2022 20:01

I requested the deposit back as soon as I left the keys and I requested it in full so literally waiting for him to put his case across. I took multiple photos of every room and his photos from the inventory are basic room picture nothing detailed so I am hoping that goes in my favour.

@ShirleyPhallus @Silverfinch i don’t think he realises this to be honest! 4 years is a while for things to have wear and tear. I’m interested to see what he puts across to be honest I can’t believe he said he is on holiday for two weeks after we handed the keys in!

OP posts:
Silverfinch · 19/07/2022 20:12

Great, after 10 working days (the 25th) if you've not had a response you can then raise a dispute. He's going to look like a dick coming back after that with petty complaints on a 4 year tenancy.

Original poster
Sl2107 · 19/07/2022 20:40

@Silverfinch I am hoping he doesn’t reply to be honest. He is being very petty!

OP posts:
Original poster
Sl2107 · 20/07/2022 08:13

The house has gone on the market today with new pictures so not sure how it could be that bad!

OP posts:
MinnieGirl · 20/07/2022 08:42

Sl2107 · 20/07/2022 08:13

The house has gone on the market today with new pictures so not sure how it could be that bad!

Download the estate agents pictures to use if you need to prove how nice the house looks!

GabriellaMontez · 20/07/2022 08:59

What a cf. Thank goodness for the deposit scheme. Before that, this sort of behaviour was standard for plenty of LL.

Original poster
Sl2107 · 20/07/2022 10:36

@MinnieGirl i have downloaded them! So interested to see what happens with the deposit now

@GabriellaMontez I know. I am thankful it is in place because we would be screwed otherwise

OP posts:
Silverfinch · 21/07/2022 12:08

I'd be inclined to ring up the letting agent as a prospective tenant and find out when the house will be available from. If it's in the next couple of weeks whilst he's on holiday then he's obviously not planning on doing any work between tenancies.

Could be useful information if you have to go to arbitration to mention that you believe the house was let again before he could spend any of the deposit he wanted to deduct.

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