Tradespeople who insist on cash

[Oestrogelsmuggler]

I am trying to get a wood burner installed. I have been given a price by a local company, but was told it'd have to be in cash, or else I'd need to pay an extra 20%, even for a bank transfer.

This annoys me. It looks to me like an obvious tax dodge, for starters. Yet this seems standard among tradespeople these days. I find it offensive when the rest of us dutifully pay our tax.

It's also inconvenient. I resent having to get thousands of pounds out in cash. I can't get it easily in one visit to a cashpoint.

It's made me want to not give him the business - but unfortunately he's the only one who bothered to visit my house and give me a reasonable quote.

Am I being unreasonable?

The rest of us? So many politicians dodge tax all the time. So not the rest of us unless "us" doesn't include the ruling class to you.

Pay the extra then you don't have to worry about tax not being paid. 🤷‍♀️
Personally I couldn't care less, it's not like politicians all pay tax (hi Rishi and wife) or hold big companies to account for dodging it, so fair play to those who can avoid it. Maybe I'd reconsider when the government actually looks after its people.

Say "thank you for the offer but I'm happy to pay the tax" and then do a bank transfer. What is the problem OP?

You seem to want the best of both worlds. Can't happen.

Pay the extra 20%.... he's clearly keeping it off the books and not paying VAT or tax, but you can bet your last pound that he'll be claiming VAT for all the parts!!

Dh is a roofer and we do not do this, despite regularly being asked how much for cash.

The other thing you need to think about is how this affects any warranty on goods and labour. Will you get a proper invoice from him? And not a worthless piece of paper as it's off the books.

As he is the only one to visit your house, this may suggest that he's not particularly. At present any decent tradespeople are stacked out with work. We've just booked building work in for next spring to get the builder we want, and my husband is booking for January onwards.

It's a dangerous game to play these days. My DH is a self employed tradesman. Everything goes through the books, it's the same price for cash / cheque / transfer.
When COVID hit his financial support was based on his tax returns so we got a decent amount. His mate, who does everything cash in hand, didn't get a penny and is still trying to recover financially.
I wouldn't use him tbh.

Gotta love MN! Where people think that people only fraudulently claim benefits because they are " forced to" so they can feed their children! Absolutely nothing to with it freeing up lots of spare cash for more enjoyable things like cars, holidays etc. Yet begrudge a hardworking tradesman not paying the government who frequently fleece all the hardworking people of this country as much tax as they should! If you want to complain about tax evasion look at all the big companies and all the rich Tossers in power in government!

Are you happy to pay 20% more than what you were quoted?

He is not giving a cheaper price for his services though is he? The 20% is VAT- which goes straight to the government. He still gets the same amount- which to him will be worth more as he won't be paying other taxes on the amount.

So you are paying 20% less, but the value to him is a lot more

So you want to pay the lesser amount but for him to pay tax on that?

if you don’t want him dodging tax and you don’t want to get cash out, then pay him the larger amount by bank transfer.
its v simple.
he isn’t insisting on tax dodging. He’s given you a fair price, or an option for an illegal cheaper price.

You seem to want a legal cheaper price but that’s not your decision.

Pay in cash then report him to HMRC. After the work is complete obviously.

What sort of person does this? Takes the cheaper price then stitches someone up. Bet you feel great glee at the thought . Just pay via bank transfer, tax will be paid and everything done properly

If you aren't happy to pay in cash then use bank transfer and pay the extra 20%!

Is this installer registered with HETAS? This needs to be the case to have guarantees and meet the standards for installation.

When engaging workmen I always drop it in the conversation that I work for HMRC, I don't but I used to, and I always get a proper invoice.

Regardless of my past employment paying in cash is fine and perfectly legal, often it helps the builder in ways other than just avoiding tax as long as you have an invoice duly marked as paid in full then there's no problem.

Remember it may not just be tax he is dodging. Look at all the stories on here of fathers who do everything they can to wriggle out of paying for their children. Going self employed is a classic strategy.

I would want nothing to do with someone who was dodging taxes. Every reputable tradesperson I work with sends me an invoice (even if it is just a simple email from a sole trader) and accepts payment by bank transfer.

You're a hypocrite for condemning him if you also still use boots, Costa coffee, Google, Virgin etc who also don't pay their tax.

Life is hard at the moment. I wouldn't begrudge anyone a bit extra. Until the government go after the big boys, I don't think thet should go after the easy pickings little people.

If they want paying in cash then you presumably won't get an invoice, or a guarantee for the work done either, which is important when installing a woodburner.

A proper professional business does not try to escape paying vat and tax.

Pay it by bank transfer, pay the extra amount after receiving the paperwork, and then report them to HMRC with the evidence that you would save 20% by paying it in cash.

It will put them on HMRC radar if nothing else.

Are they registered with Hetas? Otherwise you'll be paying for building regs sign-off too.

I can't believe the number of people who are happy to be complicit in tax dodging. Yes, times are hard, but they are hard for many, many people who are on minimum wage and have no choice but to pay tax, national insurance and CHILD MAINTENCE where relevant.

Offering deals for cash make it harder for reputable tradesmen to compete fairly.

And the whataboutery is irrelevant. I find tax optimisation practices of global corporations, and the government policies that enable them, utterly loathsome. But is doesn't exempt us from our personal legal responsibility to pay tax.

Not quite, by not declaring it, the builder is also saving himself 30-40% tax and NIC!

Tax evasion/morality aside please make sure that you will receive the correct documentation from which ever tradesperson/company you choose. This work will fall under building regulations and will need to be registered. If this doesn't happen it can cause problems when selling the property and can even invalidate your home insurance. You also need a receipt so that you have come back for any problems and I would make sure that they have a good trading history so are less likely to 'disappear'.

I won't deal with any tradesperson who demands cash, I can only get £250 out of the atm and there's no branch left here. I pay by bank transfer

I think there are a lot of people who are misunderstanding VAT. If you are registered for VAT you have to charge it to your customers - it isn't a voluntary thing! You don't get to take cash and not charge them (and in addition not pay income/corporation tax yourself depending on whether you are a sole trader or not).

Clearly if the tradesman takes cash HE is avoiding tax. He is not trying to save the customer money. That is inferring a great deal of "altruism" on the part of the trader that I doubt they have.

As far as I am concerned, tradespeople don't get to "insist" on cash. It's not that easy to get it now given the diminishing number of bank branches and you can only get a certain amount out of an ATM (and there are fewer of them as well).

Report him to HMRC.
I am sure that they would be interested to know this.

It always surprises me that tradesmen are happy to tax dodge so blatantly.
Aren't they worried that people will report them?

There is an online form you can fill in.

Also it isn't VAT that they are avoiding as they would just pay that over to HMRC. They are avoiding personal tax or corporation tax depending on whether they are a sole trader or company.

He is giving you a morality test....

Will you ...
A pay cash in hand and save 20%
or...
B pay VAT at 20%

So, op, which are you choosing?

He as a trader or the business will not pay 30-40% tax fgs.
It doesn't work like that.😂

TAX IS PAID ON PROFITS.🤓
I'm sorry to shout but my goodness, people are fiscally inept.