To keep 7 year old DS home from camp

[IrishMama2015]

Hi all, I'm looking for advise please. DS,7, has always been a good kind boy but in the last year there is lots of fibbing when he thinks he will be in trouble and it's really really becoming a flash point. He gets punished when he does something wrong so I can see why he lies on one hand but I cannot bear lying and I don't trust him at all now.

He has been at a camp the last 2 days. Finished camp yesterday and I found his full water bottle in his bag, when I queried it he told me 10 different random tales until he finally admitted he didn't like the bottle as it has 'baby' designs in it and told the camp coordinator that he didn't have any water and they had to go trying to find a cup to fill all day long for him. It's a sports camp. I then got email last night reminding me water was essential. I had strong words and warned him about lying again.

Today the water was fine but after me giving him the Spanish enquisition he admitted that he was jealous of the other kids having treats in their lunches (which the camp had asked us not to give) and so went around to all his group begging them and badgering them to share their treats pretending he didn't have a lunch even though some were getting annoyed with him and shouting at him to leave them alone.First he said it was one kid then two then all the group. Then he only did it today and finally admitted yesterday too. One of the moms sent me a text tonight basically gently asking me to stop him begging for her sons lunch.

I am so so cross at my DS and humiliated that these people now think we don't feed or water him . And I just threw out his entire lunch box of sandwiches and fruit and crackers and a flapjack.

AIBU if I keep him home from camp tomorrow to teach him a lesson?

I wrote a longer reply but I just think this is a really sad thread.

A 7 year old sent to bed alone being told he isn't trusted because he got himself all in a muddle over being embarrassed about his water bottle?

I'd rather raise a snowflake if this is the alternative.

Poor kid, he sounds scared of you and being punished. He is only 7 and he had a telling off from you, his dad and then sent to bed without a story and you want to keep him home from camp? Way overboard and it’s more about you then him.
Instead of so much focus on punishment, show him where being open and honest gets him.

Thank you everyone for your help and advise.

I have definitely handled this incorrectly. I will apologise in the morning and I will give a different water bottle and give him a small treat in his lunch and send him to camp. He loves it and all his friends are there.

I clearly need to change my approach to this part of parenting and work on my reactions to situations and be more understanding.

I have been so afraid of not correcting bad behavior/ encouraging bad behaviour that my parenting has deviated totally from what I what I want him to have and what he deserves.

He is extremely loved so I need to remind him of that tomorrow.

Quite frankly the issues your son is having are created by you, and completely your fault.

in your own words: “I admit I am v strict and expect a lot from him, and myself and everyone, which can be hard to live up to.”

People that stay stuff like that actually don’t tend to expect much from themselves, if they did they wouldn’t make feel entitled to make the people around them miserable by holding them to an arbitrary ‘standard’ that they don’t keep themselves.

You also clearly care about the, irrelevant, opinions of other parents more than your own son.
its very telling that your son didn’t feel like he could tell you he didn’t like his water bottle or what the other kids were having in their lunch boxes - he probably feared your narcissistic rage. That probably drives the lies too.

Address your behaviour and stop emotionally and psychologically abusing your son.

I'm glad that you're going to try things differently. It is frustrating when you try and follow the rules and other parents don't though. My kids went to a camp yesterday which requested healthy lunch and snacks. There was a vending machine which loads had brought money to and some children had brought massive bags of haribo to share. They went to the same place today and I gave them all cash for the machine so they fit in and can share sweets with the kids who gave to them yesterday.

It's not ideal but not a hill I'm prepared to die on. They do a lot of exercise on these days so I'm assuming it balances out the sugar.

You clearly have good intentions from your last response. Maybe spend some time figuring out why you find his behaviour so triggering and how to address that for yourself so your response can be more measured. We all have things that trigger us and children often bring those to the fore. Always worth apologising for your part in things and always worry validating his thoughts and feelings even if the behaviour isn’t what you’d hope for. ‘The whole brain child’ and ‘the explosive child’ are 2 books that give good perspectives although the second one might be less relevant for him as it’s hard to get a sense of how he is generally.

I would get the staff onboard. I would ask them to message you if there are any issues and explain how he’s been. Don’t hide behind the lies. The more the adult stuck together to less chance he has of getting away with the lies.

My Dad lied at school a few times and we arranged for the teacher to text me and we would speak to him together so he knew we all knew.

Worth considering.

You sound like hard work. He is going to lie to you more and more as he gets older as he's going to be too scared to tell the truth. He's only 7 why constantly feel the need to punish, it sounds so controlling and harsh!

So not sure if it’s the ‘in’ thing to do parenting wise but when I was a kid I would get punished for whatever transgression… then double that for lying about it. As a kid you learn pretty quick to fess up to whatever you did wrong in the first place and not get caught out later.

I think you are being too strict here. Kids can be so cruel so I understand him not wanting to use the babyish water bottle. He had water provided so was not at risk of dehydration and a quick word with the camp staff to say it was in his bag, with his lunch, when you dropped him the next day, was all that was needed to restore any reputation damage. If it was that much of an issue, they'd have called you to ask you to drop it off.

I'd be upset at the 'friend' who moaned to their parent about your child wanting to share the treats (they were told not to bring) and the parent who felt the need to contact you about it. I would have just replied to the parent about how kind their child was to share their illegal treats and that you'd sent him with some on Day 2 to share. I'd really hope my child would share their food with someone who said they didn't have a lunch (regardless of if it was true or not). If everyone else had treats, again, he is just trying to fit in but if he was actually hungry, he'd have eaten his packed lunch. Also, I'd question why did the camp staff did not sort him out a lunch?

Go with what PP have said about praising the positive. You want them to be able to talk to you and not fear you. Make sure they know that lying isn't the right thing to do but he is only 7 and does not have an adults mind. Camp is, as someone else said, for social development and fun. He shouldn't be worrying about a punishment as it will spoil his camp. Pack a few illegal treats for him to share with his friends on Day 2.

I told him I can't believe his behaviour and lies and that I don't trust him anymore. That he broke his promise. My DH repeated the same more or less and we sent him to bed alone without a story which is a huge deal to him

He’s 7 years old, that’s a lot of pressure to put on a small child. My two have a history of early trauma which amongst other things means they lie if they think they might be in trouble. Punishing them is hopeless because it feeds the fear/shame/panic cycle that perpetuates the lying. I tend to approach things from a place of curiosity and playfulness. So “what happened with your water today, I found it in your bag, did you forget it was there? Did your water bottle not want to go to camp today…” etc. I also give them time to think about what they want to say about it and, if they start telling a lie I remind them to have a careful think before they tell me what happened.

To be honest I don’t get hung up on finding out the “whole truth”, I’m their mum not a court judge, I just need enough to understand what happened. I also negotiate a lot, so the water bottle would be changed, and a treat snuck in their lunch box.

Shaming kids doesn’t change behaviour and damages relationships, who really cares what random parents think about you - why would you feel humiliated by what they may or may not be saying? Is their opinion of you more important than your relationship with your child? Keep the relationship central, think about how you’d want to be treated by someone you love when you get it wrong. I’m guessing the third degree and a punishment wouldn’t be it.

Im glad you’re going to try different things with him, maybe go easy on yourself too - it’s easier to be flexible with our kids if we can be flexible with ourselves.

I'd highly recommend the book 'No Drama Discipline' which talks about the difference between punishment and discipline. Punishments are scientifically proven do not be effective to be long term.
I listened to it as an audiobook whilst driving and it was really interesting.

Also perhaps look into therapeutic parenting techniques and natural consequences... the science around what kids' brains are doing and where they're at developmentally is fascinating and also helps you to realise that he's not doing this to you, he's doing his best and likely what is quite developmentally correct for his age.

Also consider how your own parents addressed similar behaviours in your own childhood. Often we find ourselves reacting in much the same way as our parents did, things that drive us mad so so because we were told off for them as children.

Good luck. Tell him you love. Apologise. Then move forward without beating yourself up.

I was so shocked and then so embarrassed and humiliated at what will be said by these kids to their parents about him and told him so. I told him I can't believe his behaviour and lies and that I don't trust him anymore.

He’s 7! Your focus on worrying about what the other parents might think, and feeling completely humiliated, seems over the top to me. He has pestered some friends for food- it’s not that big a deal, he’s young and he’s learning- but he can only learn from it if you calm down a bit and take the time to calmly and patiently help him understand why it isn’t a good idea to do that. Kids lie. It’s developmentally normal, and yes we have to teach them why it’s (usually) wrong, but saying to a 7 year old you don’t trust him any more is too much- you’ll just make him feel awful about himself and he won’t actually learn anything.

I’d be sitting down calmly with him and explaining that he can talk to you about anything - whether that’s wanting snacks or wanting a new water bottle or anything else that’s worrying him- not that you can always solve the problem, but you can at least talk it through together and try to come up with some ideas (maybe he can’t have snacks at camp but gets something when he comes home. The water bottle I have sympathy with- things like that matter at that age). He needs to feel he can talk to you and trust that you’ll stay calm and listen- it doesn’t mean you give in/let him have what he wants, but that you’ll at least empathise with where he’s coming from and talk it through calmly with him.

Just seen your update, good on you for taking PP’s advice on board and looking at new ways to approach this. Good luck OP.

I’m a very firm parent but honestly, he’s 7. He does sound a bit scared of you, that’s an awful feeling to have at 7. Compromise is key here, get him a bottle you’ll know he’ll use and he picks one treat a day.

But having read your update, how brilliant. Hope he enjoys the rest of camp.

Thank you all. I left him a note next to his bed asking to wake me when he woke and he did and we had a big talk where I said sorry and explained how wrong my reaction was and that I didn't listen and wasn't kind. I told him he would have his dads water bottle today if he wanted and that he can pack 2 treats - 1 for himself and 1 to share with everyone who has shared with him. He was thrilled and kept saying thank you and sorry. I repeated that I was at fault not him and that I was very proud of him for telling me and sorry for my reaction.

Thank you for all the advise, I am going to print out this thread to keep and read through again and order some of the books recommended.

Lovely end of the story. Well done! It's hard to know what the right thing is when it comes to parenting and sometimes we all get it wrong. You'll have a very happy boy today

You sound very strict and unapproachable. No wonder he doesn't feel able to confide if you react like that when he has a problem. Parent a seven year old with love and understanding, and not strict discipline.

Just buy him an age appropriate water bottle (let him choose) and pack a few treats. You're making a huge mountain out of an easily solved molehill.

Wow. Well done OP, that took a lot of bravery to admit you were wrong and take a different route. What great modelling for your son though.

I try and remember that the most important thing to work on and keep central is my relationship with my children, if that is strong then family life will always be easier. What you did this morning was relationship orientated rather than about punishment and behaviour control and look at how good it was for you and your son - you are connected he feels valued and is happier.

I would recommend the book The book you wish your parents had read (and you kids will be glad you did) by Phillipa Perry. It is very accessible and will help work out maybe why your sons behaviour is so triggering for you.

funally, all relationships have rupture. We get things wrong, kids get things wrong, the key is not about never having any rupture but always making sure you repair after which is what you did this morning.

I think you've made the right call to deal with it.

I'm glad to hear that OP. Wish you both the best

What a lovely update. I hope camp goes well from here on. But even if there’s a few glitches I’m sure you will be able to work them out with him with this different approach.

I left him a note next to his bed asking to wake me when he woke and he did and we had a big talk where I said sorry and explained how wrong my reaction was and that I didn't listen and wasn't kind. I told him he would have his dads water bottle today if he wanted and that he can pack 2 treats - 1 for himself and 1 to share with everyone who has shared with him. He was thrilled and kept saying thank you and sorry. I repeated that I was at fault not him and that I was very proud of him for telling me and sorry for my reaction.

That was a lovely thing to do. My mum was definitely of the rule with fear style of parenting and I was actually afraid of her and also lied if I feared I was in trouble - I didn't know what I'd done that was actually so wrong and such a big deal, children's perspective can be so different. I'm so glad you're trying to turn this around. If my mum had been more tolerant of children's weaknesses and more forgiving I'm sure we would be closer now.

Try to relax a bit, it's good to have standards and there's nothing wrong with expecting good behaviour but you can take it too far and create a gulf between you and your child. It's the hardest job in the world!

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