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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Is this punishment fair - DS doesn't agree with it.

50 replies

itsgettingweird · 12/07/2022 20:34

I'll be very brief as too many Mn stories turning up on FB via the mirror recently.

Anyway ds witnessed an incident earlier and was asked to make a statement of fact. He did.

2 pupils.

One touching another inappropriately and wouldn't stop when asked - friends all finding their behaviour funny which is probably what egged them on to keep repeating it.

Other one eventually responds physically.

Neither are DS 'friends' but friendly with both.

So the one who reacted physically is the only one receiving a punishment.

Ds wants to ask management for their reasoning as it's really bothered him.

I want to discourage him fighting others battles and know it's none of his business but actually agree with his reasons.

So AIBU to agree with ds in this situation both parties were in the wrong and should have received a punishment?

And if you agree both parties were wrong do you think ds should risk trouble by fighting someone else's battle for what he believes is a greater good?

All parties are 16/17 yo.

OP posts:

Doingmybest12 · 12/07/2022 20:40

I would take the view that he /you don't know everything that has been done/will be done and should not ask about things that aren't your /his business. I would praise my son for sharing what he knew about the incident and that would be it.

SpikeyHatePotato · 12/07/2022 20:42

I think it’s fantastic your DS wants to stand up for his friend who was being touched inappropriately. He may not get the outcome changed, but it’s so important behaviour like this is challenged; and it might make the school reconsider a consequence for the other friend.

MatildaTheCat · 12/07/2022 20:43

You are asking the wrong question. You don’t say what the punishment is.

However I agree with him that the wrong person is being punished on the face of it ( unless they were disproportionately violent). He may also not have all the facts.

Perhaps he could speak to or email the senior person (teacher?) and reiterate that person A was being physically assaulted ( or sexually?) and reacted in self defence. He can’t change the punishment or be privy to more information but he can speak up for the victim. I’d be proud of my son if he did so.

MiniCooperLover · 12/07/2022 20:45

So A is touching up B. B asks them to stop, A doesn't. So eventually B retaliates and B is in Trouble?

Fuck that, I'd be letting my child stand up for B.

Travis1 · 12/07/2022 20:45

Hang on, was this a female pupil being sexually assaulted and she reacted with violence? If it is I’d be speaking to her parents and offering to support in a grievance with the school

Original poster

itsgettingweird · 12/07/2022 20:48

Management know that the person was being touched inappropriately.

They know they walked away at first but were followed.

They have all the facts from witnesses and those involved.

They just believe the physical assault was a worse crime because it cause the other party to fall over (no injury) and said if they hadn't reacted they wouldn't be the one who was punished.

The more I think and type about it the more I'm confused by the stance and can understand where ds is coming from!

OP posts:

TooManyPJs · 12/07/2022 20:48

I don't agree that you shouldn't fight other people's battles. Sometimes that is the absolutely the right thing to do and if a woman has been sexually assaulted and then punished for defending herself then absolutely this is that moment!

Poppyblush · 12/07/2022 20:49

I’d be demanding to know why a kid who was being sexually assaulted and used self defence is in trouble and the abuser gets off Scott free. So fucked up.

Petrarkanian · 12/07/2022 20:49

Does the college have a safeguarding/worries email address? I'd be getting him to email what he knows. Include to Director of year, Pal and head of sixth form.

shreddednips · 12/07/2022 20:49

itsgettingweird · 12/07/2022 20:48

Management know that the person was being touched inappropriately.

They know they walked away at first but were followed.

They have all the facts from witnesses and those involved.

They just believe the physical assault was a worse crime because it cause the other party to fall over (no injury) and said if they hadn't reacted they wouldn't be the one who was punished.

The more I think and type about it the more I'm confused by the stance and can understand where ds is coming from!

Your DS is right, this is absolutely outrageous if I've understood it correctly!

Original poster

itsgettingweird · 12/07/2022 20:50

Actually ds said the punishes party was told they wouldn't be in trouble if they hadn't reacted physically but there was no mention if they'd have punished the other party in this situation.

Sorry - that was me not listening properly as was typing!

OP posts:

marktayloruk · 12/07/2022 20:51

If.someone touches you up and won't stop you're entitled to thump them. Blaming the victim is not fair.

Throckmorton · 12/07/2022 20:52

At the age they are, I'd be advising the friend who was sexually assaulted to go to the police. And thank god your DS thinks it's his business - we need more men willing to stand up for victims of abuse, not fewer!!

Original poster

itsgettingweird · 12/07/2022 20:55

Poppyblush · 12/07/2022 20:49

I’d be demanding to know why a kid who was being sexually assaulted and used self defence is in trouble and the abuser gets off Scott free. So fucked up.

Yes that's the gist of it.

It's just so confusing the more I think about it. Ds is really upset by it.

The party being punished is very quiet as is my ds and they swapped numbers earlier and the person is asking ds not to get into trouble for them and is just accepting the punishment and hoping this goes away quietly.

This is what's upsetting ds more. Although he's very quiet and keeps himself to himself he's autistic and sees the world in black and white and has an extreme sense of justice. He's getting quite agitated by what he sees as a precedence being set by this decision.

And I find myself agreeing with him.

Safeguarding is a great idea. When he's ready to discuss how to go forward rather than monologuing his disgust over and over I'll discuss this option with him and ask if they have contacts for this sort of thing.

OP posts:

Thinkbiglittleone · 12/07/2022 20:55

Be proud of your son OP and back him 1million percentage in calling this out.
He has ever right to question and stand up for this (appeared to be) Injustice.

ancientgran · 12/07/2022 20:58

Travis1 · 12/07/2022 20:45

Hang on, was this a female pupil being sexually assaulted and she reacted with violence? If it is I’d be speaking to her parents and offering to support in a grievance with the school

I don't really see why the sex matters. It isn't OK to sexually abuse boys or girls, men or women.

I do think the parents need to get involved.

ancientgran · 12/07/2022 20:59

@itsgettingweird You must be proud of your son. He is definitely one of the good guys.

balalake · 12/07/2022 21:00

I think you should contact the school, preferably in person, as a safeguarding issue. If the school are glossing over a sexual assault, that is very bad.

You could mention two words- Chris Pincher. Seems as if he has done similar, albeit over 15 years or so to a number of people.

LizzieSiddal · 12/07/2022 21:03

I too think you’re Ds is doing a good thing in asking this question. It’s very concerning that the one doing the sexual assault is not being punished.

NiqueNique · 12/07/2022 21:03

Your son is absolutely 100% correct.

picklemewalnuts · 12/07/2022 21:03

What's particularly worrying is that effectively they told the victim to endure the touching until they were able to get assistance.

That's appalling. When you are being followed and touched by an assailant, you can't push them off?

Elsiebear90 · 12/07/2022 21:05

I can believe that this happened, because a very similar thing happened to me. I was sat on a bench and a boy who fancied me came up and stood in front of me and put his arms either side of me so I was trapped and I couldn’t get out with him being extremely close to me, he then tried to kiss me, I asked him to repeatedly move, he refused so I kicked him in the shin, a teaching assistant saw and I was the only one punished.

I would support your DS in speaking up.

Original poster

itsgettingweird · 12/07/2022 21:06

Thanks all. You're absolutely right him standing up for a victim of sexual inappropriate and unwanted touching is 100% right. It's so hard when he's full on in "autistic mode" (in quotes because he calls it that and can define his disability as he chooses!) because he can't discuss the issue and gets more more ingrained in his viewpoint and his sense of what is right.

And in this case he is. And yes, I'll support him to bring this up. Probably as a wider issue as his 'friend' (I think they've now made friends rather than classmates iyswim?) really doesn't want ds to fight this for him.

Although I've no idea what the parents are doing - I'll get ds to ask him tomorrow.

OP posts:

Original poster

itsgettingweird · 12/07/2022 21:08

Elsiebear90 · 12/07/2022 21:05

I would support your DS in speaking up.

I'm so sorry that happened to you.

It's just so unfair.

People are so vulnerable if they can't defend themselves.

That's what ds keeps saying over and over.

OP posts:

Original poster

itsgettingweird · 12/07/2022 21:10

I don't really see why the sex matters. It isn't OK to sexually abuse boys or girls, men or women.

This is why I've not mentioned sex.

But this was a girl touching a boy.

The schools stance is that males shouldn't be violent to woman as it's an abuse of power

OP posts:

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