Is this punishment fair - DS doesn't agree with it.

[itsgettingweird]

I'll be very brief as too many Mn stories turning up on FB via the mirror recently.

Anyway ds witnessed an incident earlier and was asked to make a statement of fact. He did.

2 pupils.

One touching another inappropriately and wouldn't stop when asked - friends all finding their behaviour funny which is probably what egged them on to keep repeating it.

Other one eventually responds physically.

Neither are DS 'friends' but friendly with both.

So the one who reacted physically is the only one receiving a punishment.

Ds wants to ask management for their reasoning as it's really bothered him.

I want to discourage him fighting others battles and know it's none of his business but actually agree with his reasons.

So AIBU to agree with ds in this situation both parties were in the wrong and should have received a punishment?

And if you agree both parties were wrong do you think ds should risk trouble by fighting someone else's battle for what he believes is a greater good?

All parties are 16/17 yo.

On the facts as set out here your DS is absolutely right to speak up. I'm not surprised it is bothering him. If the victim of the initial "touching up" is in favour of him speaking out then he absolutely should do so and if I were you I would support him. If they are not, then I'm more on the fence but my workplace training would say he should speak up and would be protected for doing so. The law would say that one is entitled to use violence in self defence so long as it is not excessive. If this was self defence then there should not be punishment but understanding.

I mean really. You want to teach your kid that when they feel strongly that someone has been treated unfairly that they should keep out of it as it's not their battle. I would be encouraging him to speak out in an appropriate manner. For example emailing the senior person in charge or the manager of who gave out the punishment. It is clearly incorrect. Really both should probably be punished as it shouldn't have ended in violence.

OP, you’ve raised a bit of a superstar there! Your son sounds fabulous - good luck to you both in making sure that the facts are heard again and reconsidered.

No I don't. And I was worried I'd be giving him that message but his friend doesn't want him to fight it either. He's very quiet and wants this to just disappear.

And management are fully aware of the situation. And who did what. They acknowledge this but are punishing the male because he's male and used violence.

That doesn't sit right at all.

One of the benefits of autism is it often comes with a knack of seeing straight through the bullshit. You should support your son.

Fwiw I don't think anyone, make or female, should have to endure repeated unwanted touching and pushing away, when walking away has failed, seems entire appropriate.

Being touched without consent is assault.

There are very few reasons to use physical violence but to protect yourself from further sexual abuse is certainly one of them. If there was no injury he didn’t use excessive force. Let your DS stand up for what’s right and hopefully change your schools policy. However, prepare him that his friend may not appreciate it.

No injury but she did fall over.

I’d be very disappointed in a school where this was the outcome.

If the student doing the inappropriate touching was male and the person who pushed was female, do you think the outcome would have been the same?

I have male and female children and I would bet that had the position been reversed this would not have been the outcome.

This story is horrific, do the sexually assaulted kids parents know? I'd be fucking raging and at the police and the school for their appalling response would be getting reported to oftsted is it?

I get it his newish friend doesnt want him too but if enough people are outraged by it and they all complained people would take notice. I would tell him to be true to himself autistic or not if he feels strongly enough even though his friend doesnt want him too them that's his shout. My DS is also autistic he is 21 now and really would not speak up against anyone in authority seeing that as the be all and end all. I prefer your sons response.

I'm on the.autistic scale myself. Your son has my full.support.
The school's policy is sexist and unfair What's a guy supposed to do if a girl won't stop.touching him?

In your sons shoes, I would raise it, absolutely.

This outcome would put me in a position where I doubt the school would support me in the same or similar situation - I would want to know exactly what their policy IS for such incidents both where the victim does not retaliate, or where they feel pushed to do so to end the situation.

I would also want to know what the suggest a student does if they cannot walk away, to end a situation.

I would also NOT accept a bland 'every situation is different' type of answer! We have laws for a variety of situations and apply them as the situation requires, we don't just have a vague judicial system that says 'every situation is different so I can't tell you what would happen...'

I would have hoped that the victim would have been given alternative measures should such a situation occur again, and reminded that those alternatives exist and that retaliation rarely solves the problem and can make matters worse...

AND... the abuser punished for what is and was absolutely a crime.

We do not have any law that says 'its ok to do something illegal to a person if they then smack you for it'!

I would approach the police, actually. It's clear the school are out of their depth.

I wouldn’t expect my DS to raise it with the school. I’d raise it myself, and contact the parents of the child who was assaulted because they need to complain too. This is not a battle for children to fight, the adults need to sort it out.

Thanks.

This is absolutely what we need to ask in an email.

Because one of ds concerns now is what he can to do protect himself if he was in this situation.

How does your son know that the person doing the inappropriate touching hasn't also been disciplined or action taken in some other way? It isn't necessarily appropriate for the school to share what action they have taken with other students.

At the end of the day it's about challenging the process rather than the outcome of this one incident. Perhaps DS can see the general injustice and doesn't think anyone else should have to go through similar, particularly himself if the situation were to arise. I would focus any complaint away from the child involved and make it a broader questioning of the school's policies. If there isn't an adequate response from management take the issue to the governor's.

So A is touching up B. B asks them to stop, A doesn't. So eventually B retaliates and B is in Trouble?

Fuck that, I'd be letting my child stand up for B.

THIS⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️

You have a great kid there & that he wants to stand up for what is right & step up is truly admirable. Encourage that, we need more people in the world like him

& yes I'd encourage him to step up & ask the teachers the thinking behind the punishment as it seems unfair to him & if it is genuinely unfair, to speak up & say so

Where they've gone wrong is that they haven't understood that sexual assault is an act of violence, so the victim was only responding in a similar way. I'd help DS escalate this as far as necessary to get the policy changed so that sexual assault is clearly banned on campus.
I'd also try to get the victim to report it to the police, the abusers needs consequences: www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/rsa/rape-and-sexual-assault/what-is-rape-and-sexual-assault/.

I'd also be telling dc to stay well away from child A, il depending on how they are seeing this incident. If they see what they did was wrong are sorry, less so, if they are playing the victim from this stay well away!

I would be asking the school how they plan to deal with the fact that a child has been sexually assaulted and despite walking away this continued.

if I was that child’s parents I would be telling them you aren’t completing the punishment because you were repeatedly sexually assaulted in front of witnesses and atfm

Based on what you've said, the punishment is wrong.

I actually dont agree either with your view that your child shouldn't be fighting other people's battles. we have too many people in society who just stand by while injustice happens. It's how people end up being assaulted on a packed train and noone helps them, for example.

I would encourage my child to do what they feel is right. Even if he is not successful it's an important lesson in the importance of standing up for what you believe in. Especially as his statement will have supported the punishment (because it confirmed factually what happened)

Because the other lad was sent home.

She came back and said she wasn't in trouble.

Because there are 16/17yo. who all talk and find out what's going on.

I agree that this issue needs escalating further. I'd be supporting your son in learning how to handle serious complaints. This would include how he can protect his MH and handle any fallout with the new friend. Plus, how he can find and follow the complaints policy in full and how to escalate this to outside agencies (if appropriate) if he needs to or he gets nowhere in-house.

The rest of their life is a long time to have to live with the knowledge that you let an organisation get away with hushing up a sexual assault.

There's been a recent threat about grievances (maybe academic common room) and one head of department explained that if they feel a complaint is complex they will minimise/dismiss it rather than take on the burden of the additional work.