Police officers 'shared images of person who died by suicide' - Warning: graphic descriptions

[MNettersForNoahAndFiona]

Warning: graphic descriptions follow, in BBC News article and BBC video interview with the family:

Two NI police officers have been investigated for more than three years over allegations they manipulated a person who died by suicide's body and shared photos and a video online.

One of the officers has been suspended with full pay while the Police Ombudsman investigates. It is part of a wider investigation encompassing 11 separate but related incidents spanning several years. There are multiple suspects, including police officers and civilians, in Northern Ireland as well as in England. The investigation is looking at a range of possible offences including misconduct, harassment and the suspected supply of drugs.

The allegations around the two Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) officers are harrowing. The police officers asked the family to leave the room. The victim's body was moved around the room and posed for photographs and a video. His trousers were taken down and his genitalia exposed for one of the photographs. The images were then photoshopped with speech bubbles mocking the victim, including using a derogatory term for his religion and shared.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-62012268

The victim died in 2017 in Belfast. That is five years ago and still the police (PSNI) have not charged these sick and callous individuals. Only 30 hours of interviews have taken place in 5 years. When two disgraceful Met police officers similarly shared images of the bodies of murdered sisters Nicole Smallman and Bibaa Henry, they were quite rightly prosecuted and sent to prison - even by the Met.

The BBC recently broadcast interviews with two Police Service of Northern Ireland whistleblowers speaking publicly for the first time about serious allegations of misconduct and negligence within the PSNI:
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0017yyn

Some Mumsnetters will have also seen my threads and those of others about the death and disappearance of young Noah Donohoe, also in Belfast, in 2020. After he had been missing for 6 days, Noah's naked body was retrieved from a drain. Two years later, his mother Fiona is still having to fight for the truth about her son's death and for justice for him. It is the same police force: the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI), and the same Chief Constable: Simon Byrne.
Here is a factual and reliable pinned Twitter thread for people new to Noah's story or wanting to know more:
mobile.twitter.com/MarymoBelfast/status/1370453351616425985
Here is Fiona's podcast:

Here is a Channel 4 News report: www.channel4.com/news/noah-donohoe-family-seek-answers-over-belfast-teenagers-death And please do sign Fiona's petition if you haven't already: www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4573833-noah-donohoe-his-mothers-fight-for-the-truth-and-justice-please-help-stop-the-police-coroner-and-brandon-lewis-from-keeping-investigation-files-into-the-death-of-a-child-secret-thread-3?

These are only three examples of many serious failings from the PSNI. Victims' families have lost trust in them. Decent, whistleblowing officers have lost trust in them. The Metropolitan Police have recently been put into special measures for their failings. AIBU to believe that the same must happen with the lazy, corrupt, incompetent, racist and bigoted PSNI?

I agree @billy1966 - thanks for reading and posting.

Having a background where involvement with the police was negligible and raised to view them positively, my own experiences have all been hugely positive.
But the last couple of years cases seem to be piling up.

The case of taking a child from her exam, strip searching her, whilst on her period, without her parents being contacted, because a teacher randomly smelt weed has had a profound affect on me.

I think of her and her poor mum, faced with her distressed child coming in from school with this unbelievably story.

I spoke at length about it with my husband and wondered how we both wouldn't go completely fxxking mad, at our child being sexually assaulted by the state whilst two teachers stood guard outside the room.

It has forever changed forever how I view both teachers and the police.

I'd like to add Arlene Arkinson to the list, a 15 year old child who was raped and murdered by Robert Howard and her body never found. She was another victim of the PSNI. They applied and were granted a Public Interest Immunity Certificate to protect Robert Howard and keep information about him secret. He was an informant and a known violent sex offender. Ben Wallace, current Conservative MP for Wyre and Preston North and Defence Minister, was Northern Ireland Secretary at the time and granted it. Robert Howard got away with Arlene's rape and murder. He was also then free to travel widely in Ireland, England and Scotland and, as a prolific and predatory violent sex offender, committed other similar crimes. He was finally brought to justice by Kent Police, after he had raped and murdered another girl in England. I'd like to add her name to the list too: Hannah Williams, aged 14.

I know that some people see this as 'just a Northern Ireland problem', but the case of Robert Howard reminds us that it isn't. He was free to travel. The police officer mentioned in the Belfast Telegraph report posted upthread worked for Greater Manchester Police.

And the PSNI don't learn. As I mentioned in the OP, they have applied for a Public Interest Immunity Certificate in Noah's investigation too, to keep 500 pages secret. Brandon Wallace, Conservative MP for Great Yarmouth, was no doubt considering granting it but has now resigned from Boris Johnson's cabinet as Northern Ireland Secretary. The task now falls to Shailesh Vara , Conservative MP for North West Cambridgeshire and new NI Secretary - but for how long with the situation in No 10, who knows?!

I'm not the one posting a sensationalist MN title knowing no one is going to disagree with you and then posting about your own cause and agenda. Totally disingenuous

Yeah, why I voted yabu. Some people choose to avoid threads about Noah.

NACALT (not all coppers are like that)

there’s always one or two serving police officers who come on these threads to defend the indefensible

You could say the same about every profession though - teachers, nurses, taxi-drivers, air crew etc etc

I would class myself as good apple - not 'bad' or 'bruised' as are my shift who I work with. So where would I fit in....?

but if you don’t bother to do or say anything to change the underlying culture, you are complicit. You are as bad as them.

and we’ve no way of knowing who the good apples are. I imagine every copper says the same as you. But, clearly, far too many are rotten.

so I’ll judge you by your deeds. Instead of discussing how things can be improved, you come on here to stick up for your corrupt, misogynist, violent organisation. You come on here as a man to tell women they are wrong.

and you do it all the fucking time.

Also in the Guardian:
Belfast police accused of posing man’s body for photos after suicide after images shared online, including speech bubble with derogatory language
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jul/08/belfast-police-accused-of-posing-mans-body-for-photos-after-suicide

Policing Board to hold special meeting over suicide victim's pictures:
www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/07/09/news/policing_board_to_hold_special_meeting_over_suicide_victim_s_pictures-2767929/

'The Police Federation said the incident was distressing adding that there were wider implications for the PSNI.'
Absolutely there are.

The PSNI Chief Constable Simon Byrne has just published his end of year report:
www.psni.police.uk/globalassets/news-and-appeals/latest-news/070722-chief-constables-accountability-report---july-2022/chief-constables-end-of-year-report-to-the-northern-ireland-policing-board-2021-2022.pdf

Northern Ireland has one of the lowest crime rates (page 40) when compared to England and Wales. You would think then that the PSNI had the time to deal with the serious wrongdoing of its officers in less than 5 years, to properly try to find poor Noah as a critical incident when he disappeared and correctly investigate his death, wouldn't you? But then, if they are recording that what happened to Noah Donohoe was not a crime, perhaps the crime rate is not as low as the Chief Constable reports.

I also wonder how many of the self-identified 'good apples' and their 'good apple' colleagues are good apples to all members of our community, or whether they are just good apples to the ones who look, sound and pray like them.

Would the police officers who moved, posed, photographed, videoed, exposed and ridiculed the body of the man who died by suicide have been good apples if he hadn't been Catholic? Probably. Did they appear to be good apples to their colleagues and senior officers who are more like them? Probably. Would the police officers responsible for finding Noah alive and investigating his death have been good apples if Noah hadn't been bi-racial and Catholic - never mind the people responsible for his disappearance and death and for not helping him? Probably.

'FLAWED' | PSNI turned down requests from officers to make Noah Donohoe death ‘critical incident’
www.sundayworld.com/news/irish-news/psni-turned-down-requests-from-officers-to-make-noah-donohoe-death-critical-incident/944104957.html

Image: Front page yesterday

Without wanting to diminish anyone's lived experience, those of us on council estates or living in 'less desirable' areas have been aware for some time.

NI has its own issues but in GB I think it dates back to when the men's and women's forced 'amalgamated', because they didn't, women were expected to act like the men's service, all the expertise of the women's force was just thrown away.

As for the 'bad apples' the phrase is that "a bad apple will spoil the whole barrel", if you have one bad apple you have a problem.

You have never done anything neglectful, abusive or lass than good practice and you have never witnessed anyone else do any of that, nor have you ever heard of someone doing it and said nothing?

Well then it doesn't apply to you does it? Nor does your claim mean that others aren't behaving in unacceptable ways.

What's your point?

thedancingbear
And how exactly am I "....sticking up for your corrupt, misogynist, violent organisation. You come on here as a man to tell women they are wrong...."

Where have I said that anyone is wrong...? In fact, my earlier post was asking the question of how we can improve

I have and continue to call out 'bad behaviour'' and 'bad apples' in the service - often against the wishes of the public we serve - but does that make me a bad apple?

When i call into question partner agencies who are passing the buck onto police - does that make me a bad apple?

When I arrest someone for an allegation made by a victim - does that make me a bad apple? In the eyes of the victim and their family - I am a good apple - but in the eyes of the suspect and their family I am a corrupt, bad apple. So, where would I fit here?

IncompleteSenten
No - I call out any bad practice and I have never been neglectful. Members of the public often want me to be so "Shove him in the van" "put him on the floor" "Can't you stick him in the cells for the day". No, because it goes against the rules and I won't do it - does this make me a bad apple?

My point, is that you can argue this 'bruised apple synopsis' with any profession. How many medical staff knew about Shipman, Allitt, Letby etc etc and said nothing. Does this mean that the whole barrel is rotten here too? I also wonder how many of the self-identified 'good apples' and their 'good apple' colleagues are good apples to all members of our community.

Of course you can.
But this thread is about the police.

And yes, everyone who knew about the examples you gave and said and did nothing is indeed a 'bruised apple'.

I genuinely don't know what it is you are trying to say.
That every profession has corruption and abusers?
That's not a reason to tolerate it.

And yes. Every single person in any job who knows about abuses and turns a blind eye is part of the problem.

I'm not sure how it can be argued otherwise.

And every manager who does nothing.
And every organisation that covers up for abusers.

Yes. Entire systems can be and are rotten to the core.

but it's important to note the sectarian angle in this article and note that it involves the PSNI, i.e. you need to view this story in the Northern Irish context.

I haven't read the articles attached, but I did read about this case on twitter over the weekend. This is sectarian.
I've seen similar this week images of PSNI officers wearing RUC badges and PSNI declaring the petrol bombing of bonfires prior to the 11th as a hate crime (but not the bonfires themselves)

The PSNI is still seriously flawed.

And if what I'm hearing is correct, some of those women have taken to acting like the men's service to some of the worst extremes.

Yesterday's inside pages:

The PSNI is unable to say how many serving police officers or civilian staff have been issued with Non-Molestation Orders in the last five years, 'as it doesn’t keep records' - 1800 NMOs were issued in total:
twitter.com/AllisonMorris1/status/1546403271228723200

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/number-of-domestic-abuse-orders-served-on-psni-officers-unknown-41829174.html

Nineteen PSNI officers suspended amid sexual misconduct investigations
Allegations include rape, officers having sex with victims of crime and child abuse
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/nineteen-psni-officers-suspended-amid-sexual-misconduct-investigations-41320986.html

52 PSNI officers and staff accused of domestic abuse, but none convicted

Force says review of disciplinary processes ongoing as UK-wide probe reveals extent of problem among police
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/52-psni-officers-and-staff-accused-of-domestic-abuse-but-none-convicted-41472862.html

Concern as 593 serving PSNI officers not fully vetted - three years after process started

MLA slams ‘lacklustre’ progress in completing process
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/concern-as-593-serving-psni-officers-not-fully-vetted-41071689.html

O'Neill says claims police officers defiled and photographed suicide victims body 'atrocious'
www.itv.com/news/utv/2022-07-08/oneill-says-claims-police-officer-defiled-body-atrocious

PSNI dismiss 11 officers this year amid 130 gross misconduct cases
www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/psni-dismiss-11-officers-year-24428452?int_source=nba

We shouldn't be too surprised at the actions of these two depraved and bigoted police officers, and that young Noah Donohoe just didn't stand a chance, when you look at the hate openly displayed to this day by some members of society. They are a hardened, hate-filled minority, but what is being done by the good majority to stop them?

The images are of bonfires only a couple of days ago - in the city where those police officers work and in the place where Noah disappeared and died - you can see the sectarian hate speech graffiti, including 'ALL TAIGS ARE TARGETS', together with the burning of flags, election posters, images of the Pope, and also effigies were burnt.

I can't imagine that the PSNI will put too much time and energy into investigating this either.
www.itv.com/news/utv/2022-07-11/police-investigating-effigies-election-posters-and-flags-placed-on-bonfires