Page 9 | Fine for taking kid out of school- 8 days?

Bunty1958 · 09/07/2022 20:16

Whatever happened to the concept of parental responsibility and choice? Thank goodness my kids are grown-up now and I don't have to worry about this! Took our kids out term time in primary school. One is now a senior nurse and the other an accountant. Surely it should be up to the parents?

shine18 · 09/07/2022 20:25

so in my day there were no fines. The head teacher of my daughter”s primary school actually felt children learnt and benefited from holidays with family. She too was high achiever A* in GCSEs so clearly didn’t suffer! Surely the issue isn’t “you knew the fines” but the effect (or not) on children. As long as it’s limited and only at primary, plus you keep up with school work I don’t see the problem but clearly I’m in the minority!!!

ApplesandBunions · 09/07/2022 20:40

devonianBiatch · 09/07/2022 15:00

@ApplesandBunions

I totally agree. Years ago e and my best friend took our kids to Tunisia. My 4yo daughter was amazed that there was tiny little pipe fish literally swimming around her feet as she was paddling. She got really upset that she couldn't catch one, they were super quick. Then she wiped her tears away and announced that she would stand really still with her bucket and she would get one eventually . Me and my friend were laughing about it and like "naaaaaw, how cute is that". She didn't give up, she stood and stood and when she came over after 4 hours with 3 fish in her bucket she was so proud she pet much grew an inch taller. She learned to swim in the pool that week too. She went on to swim for her school in competitions and win a good few medals too. And that trip, she came home a much more confident and resilient child. And at 14 she still reminds me about how everybody said she wouldn't catch a fish and she caught 3!

Sounds like she got a lot out of the experience.

Murdoch1949 · 09/07/2022 20:45

School is not an opt in opt out activity. Your message to your children is that school attendance is optional. Poor parenting.

Pliudev · 09/07/2022 20:53

I find this really annoying, though I know many on here disagree. Unless this is a regular occurance, exams are coming up or the child is behind in their studies I can't see the harm. To those telling the OP she has deprived her DC of 8 days education, I'd say that unless their time was spent solely by a pool, plenty cwnnbe learned on holiday. We took my son on a cruise, visited Rome, Florence, Pisa, Cartegena, Lisbon and Cannes. We went to art galleries and museums, ate local food and found our way round major centres of culture. We visited the unforgettable Gallileo exhibition in Florence. My son learned more in that trip than weeks of school. Very soon, schools will be taking children to theme parks for days out. What do they learn there? It seems to me a little common sense should be applied. And yes, my DCs school gave permission for him to have the time off.

Pliudev · 09/07/2022 20:55

can be!

nopuppiesallowed · 09/07/2022 21:30

Children can certainly learn a great deal from visits to Rome etc but if they are away during the school term, they will not be learning the things in the curriculum in Maths and English that their classmates will be covering. When do you think they will catch up on that? In their teacher's lunch time? In class time? If another child in their class is taking up their teacher's attention so they can catch up on what they have missed while they were on holiday, will you be happy that the teacher is concentrating on them and not on your child? By all means, take your child on enriching visits - but not when they are supposed to be in school. And please - don't excuse it by saying it's cheaper in term time. Teachers would also love to go away when it's cheaper, but it's not possiible for them.

Supergirl1958 · 09/07/2022 21:48

Morello339 · 09/07/2022 19:49

I'm a teacher, and I'm not overly bothered about term time holidays. It think that's the choice of the parent. However, I did once have a dad come in after school report day to ask why their child was not working at age related expectations. I explained that his attendance was a contributing factor, and he genuinely said " I don't think 3 weeks spend at our house in Spain is going to be the reason he can't read. We'll, translating that to phonics classes that is 15 different graphemes he has missed being introduced. With 30 children to 1 adult I can't see how he thought I was going to reteach those sounds to him, taking into consideration that his child was not the only one who had missed school that year.

@Morello339 Wow I'm glad you arent a teacher in my school! Fundamentally his holiday isnt the only contributing factor to his lost learning!

Where were your interventions to ensure that child caught up on the gaps he clearly needed plugging! I was a teacher in KS2 with no TA and I informed SLT immediately so they could help me get some interventions in place!!

I've had several children off this year with long periods of absence and managed to catch them up with interventions plus, whilst teaching two separate curriculums. Most have managed to pass the screening check also and most of my eyfs kids acheived their elg! Ithink its irresponsible of you to put the blame solely at the feet of the parents and blaming it on lost learning when you h
could have made steps to ensure that the child caught up!!

ALongHardWinter · 09/07/2022 21:51

As far as schools are concerned,rules are rules,with no exceptions. It doesn't matter whether your child has 100% attendance,or a crap attendance prior to missing school,the rules still apply.

munner · 09/07/2022 21:52

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Morello339 · 09/07/2022 22:16

Supergirl1958 · 09/07/2022 21:48

@Morello339 Wow I'm glad you arent a teacher in my school! Fundamentally his holiday isnt the only contributing factor to his lost learning!

Where were your interventions to ensure that child caught up on the gaps he clearly needed plugging! I was a teacher in KS2 with no TA and I informed SLT immediately so they could help me get some interventions in place!!

I've had several children off this year with long periods of absence and managed to catch them up with interventions plus, whilst teaching two separate curriculums. Most have managed to pass the screening check also and most of my eyfs kids acheived their elg! Ithink its irresponsible of you to put the blame solely at the feet of the parents and blaming it on lost learning when you h
could have made steps to ensure that the child caught up!!

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Well, it's lovely that your school has surplus funding and staff to put interventions in place, unfortunately ours did not. Our EYFS class LSAs were being used to support children who had entered school with extreme behavioural needs and SEN that hadn't been identified in preschool. Obviously he took part in interventions during continuous provision time, but he was already a child working below age related. You can't genuinely tell me that a child who already struggles to retain information isn't negatively impacted by missing 15 days off school, before any illness or appointments are factored in? And this was all before covid, so no Google classrooms, or online learning was available. Like I said, I have no objection to term time holidays, I have objections to the belief that teachers have time and resources to 'catch up' every single child who has 2 weeks off.

BoffinMum · 09/07/2022 22:16

I think fines are a social control mechanism and not useful in improving education. There’s a lot of blather about every day in school being important, while at the same time children who are refugees from Ukraine, those from forces families returning to the U.K. at short notice, or those fleeing domestic violence are frequently stranded without school places for weeks or months when it suits the local authority to be tardy making proper arrangements. Perhaps if parents were entitled to the same fine payments in return if the local authority cocked up, it might be fairer and be more honest. But it’s all one way at the moment.

Angrywife · 09/07/2022 22:28

Catfordthefifth · 08/07/2022 11:03

Don't be so ridiculous. They were off for a good year with COVID but seemingly that's absolutely fine whilst 8 days will "deny them an education"

Christ, every other generation had holidays in school term and most of us hold down a job. 8 days won't make a shit of difference if they attend the rest of the time.

Realistically fines should be given to parents who just can't be arsed sending their kids to school and keep them off for pathetic reasons, however these parents ime never get fined, there's never any consequences, but I'm sure I'll get a fine for taking ds out for five days last week even though it's had no detrimental affect whatsoever and he's had only one other day off (COVID test) this school year.

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It's exactly because of covid that the laws are getting stricter. Children missed too much of their education then to be missing more from holidays now.

And how do you know those that can't be arsed are never fined? Do they tell you? I seriously doubt you know the ins and outs of what does and doesn't happen. Of course something gets done and of course there are consequences. Court appearance usually.

fetchacloth · 09/07/2022 22:47

YABU
The school has a legal responsibility to report to the LA.

Ortega888 · 09/07/2022 23:05

I totally empathise with you as schools are now run like juvenile prisons. They punish the children and the largest. I think it’s very extreme to fine parents. Sadly schools have way too much power and lord do they love it. Your child will not get behind missing 8 days. Let us know you get on

Ortega888 · 09/07/2022 23:05

Oops meant they also punish the parents too.

Fairislefandango · 09/07/2022 23:17

I totally empathise with you as schools are now run like juvenile prisons. They punish the children and the largest. I think it’s very extreme to fine parents. Sadly schools have way too much power and lord do they love it.

I've never heard such a load of nonsense. Schools have no power. That's why behaviour in schools is so bad - because schools have no power to do anything much about it. Parents who go on about teachers being 'dictators' or 'loving power' do not have a clue. And they are often the parents who make constant excuses for their appallingly-behaved children and accuse schools of picking on them.

Crocsandshocks · 09/07/2022 23:49

I totally empathise with you as schools are now run like juvenile prisons. They punish the children and the largest. I think it’s very extreme to fine parents. Sadly schools have way too much power and lord do they love it. Your child will not get behind missing 8 days. Let us know you get on

I tend to agree. Schools really over estimate their role in children's wellbeing and development.

Lovely13 · 10/07/2022 00:39

Back in the bad old days, when no fines, took mine out once a year In January to go skiing. Only way I could afford it. Think no harm done. We have great memories of those times. They have both since graduated with a 1st and a 2.1 and have good jobs.

newname12345 · 10/07/2022 06:22

Bunty1958 · 09/07/2022 20:16

Whatever happened to the concept of parental responsibility and choice? Thank goodness my kids are grown-up now and I don't have to worry about this! Took our kids out term time in primary school. One is now a senior nurse and the other an accountant. Surely it should be up to the parents?

Parents do have a choice, they can home school if they like. If though they want to use schools then need to follow their rules. This is the way life works.

If taking kids out during term term wasn't deemed as a bad thing (and hence the fine), many more parents would do it. Which would mean more work for teachers, and ultimately holidays during term time would no longer be much cheaper than during school holidays.

Supergirl1958 · 10/07/2022 07:11

Morello339 · 09/07/2022 22:16

Well, it's lovely that your school has surplus funding and staff to put interventions in place, unfortunately ours did not. Our EYFS class LSAs were being used to support children who had entered school with extreme behavioural needs and SEN that hadn't been identified in preschool. Obviously he took part in interventions during continuous provision time, but he was already a child working below age related. You can't genuinely tell me that a child who already struggles to retain information isn't negatively impacted by missing 15 days off school, before any illness or appointments are factored in? And this was all before covid, so no Google classrooms, or online learning was available. Like I said, I have no objection to term time holidays, I have objections to the belief that teachers have time and resources to 'catch up' every single child who has 2 weeks off.

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@Morello339 not always. I didn't have a TA when I was in KS2.

I did say it was remisss of you to say he wasn't able to read solely because he missed 15 graphemes and you were unable to catch him up. You also had ample time to prewarn parents that he had additional needs and wasnt going to make expected progress, so it wasnt a shock when they received his end of year reports....I assume in the days prior to google classroom and online learning (Google classroom is something we still dont have and even if we did im not in an affluent area...so children rarely accessed their online learning when we did it) you were able to have parents evenings...oh and actual face to face conversations with parents!!! We could talk until the cows come home about reasonings behind not making expected progress of course but in this case you used a bad example.

Parentsofaprincess · 10/07/2022 08:07

NeedToGoOut · 08/07/2022 10:41

Just got penalty notice letters for DH and I.

We only took DC out of school last month for 8 days, first ever time. I didn’t think a penalty was given unless DC is taken out for 10 days?

DC had 100% attendance outside of that and is top of year. No effect on education at all. Had assessments the week after we returned and got 97-100%!

AIBU to be a bit pissed off the school ran straight to LA to rat on us?

Pay the fine and get on with life. The system in this country is rubbish though and like everything else seems very broken but as with NHS etc. politicians are too scared to mend anything for fear of their careers. I lived in Australia with a family for a month and they are allowed to take their kids out of school for other educational purposes. For example I went out with dad and 12 year old son for a walk along coast to Bondi beach when he should have been at school. As it was with me and he was learning about me and my life into the UK it was deemed educational!

WalkingOnTheCracks · 10/07/2022 09:17

Bertieboo82 · 08/07/2022 16:23

I actually once even emailed her teacher to say that we were having a quiet day as she needed it and wanted to spend my day off with me

teacher’s response…. “Enjoy!”

When I was a kid my mum - who was completely committed to us 'getting an education' - had a rule where once a term we could say, "I don't want to go to school today," and she'd say, "Okay. Don't."

Once a term, strictly.

It was a great feeling to know you had that in the bank. And, actually, on the days when you just really didn't feel like going to school, you'd think, "Do I want to use my day off today? No. Not yet." And you'd go.

So it had the effect of actually improving attendance.

She's a clever woman, my mum.

Crocsandshocks · 10/07/2022 09:33

Parents do have a choice, they can home school if they like. If though they want to use schools then need to follow their rules. This is the way life works.

Bit of a hobsons choice that. And no its not the way life works. Its a set of man made rules that can be changed at a y time.

marktayloruk · 10/07/2022 09:38

I had an abysmal attendance record but still got 5 O levels, 3 As and a degree. This policy is an example of control freakery started by Michael.Gove's banning the term time holidays which were all some parents could afford. Couldn't some schools tactfully forget to report some cases? School.is in my opinion overrated- especially with this ridiculous RSHE which they have the PC gall to make compulsory.