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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Tax childless adults

542 replies

Acidburn · 04/07/2022 13:41

Hi all

Just saw the below article on LBC news:

www.lbc.co.uk/news/childless-tax-birthrate-uk-cost-of-living-paul-morland/

AIBU to think that this insane?

OP posts:
MarshaBradyo · 04/07/2022 17:33

Sofadog · 04/07/2022 17:27

Really uncomfortable with some of the comments on here that seem to suggest it would be more unfair to do this to people who can’t but have tried to have children. As if somehow just having this for people making a conscious choice is ok. Once again pedalling the narrative that people who choose not to have children are somehow worth less in society. It’s a shitty idea for everyone that would be affected.

You are right. It’s unfair for anyone without dc regardless

RJnomore1 · 04/07/2022 17:35

This is a jaw droppingly awful idea!

Blossomtoes · 04/07/2022 17:37

Spot on @carefullycourageous.

hatchyu · 04/07/2022 17:37

I’m not against euthanasia with a hell of a lot of conditions attached and I suspect that it’ll become a regular point of debate in coming decades. Most people want to reach old age but it’s almost always accompanied with an unspoken caveat of decent health which sadly isn’t the case for lots of people.

That's the flip side isn't it. More people working till they drop, no retirement & euthanasia

wannabeamummysobad · 04/07/2022 17:38

CraftyGin · 04/07/2022 13:51

Childless adults don't get child benefits, so that a bit like a reverse tax.

Neither do high earners with children

XenoBitch · 04/07/2022 17:39

Are childless men going to be taxed too? What if a man finds out that he fathered a child that he knew nothing about... will he get a rebate?
What if a man found out the kid he thought was his, was actually someone elses.... would he have to pay up a lump sum?
Or is it all only going to apply to women? (which I bet is what the person suggesting this is getting at).
It is just a horrible idea all round.

LegInLegOut · 04/07/2022 17:41

Bloody hell.
Sorry that you can't have children Ms Smith, however I'm sure it will help your heartache to give up some of your wages to help those who can.
It's outrageous! For some it's not a lifestyle choice.
I don't smoke, never have. Should I pay a percentage of my wages towards those who do to help fund their choice?
Shame on that man and on anyone who agrees with him!

iBrows · 04/07/2022 17:41

What a shit idea. It would obviously affect men, but would disproportionately affect women who take the risks when it comes to having children.

carefullycourageous · 04/07/2022 17:41

I’m not against euthanasia with a hell of a lot of conditions attached and I suspect that it’ll become a regular point of debate in coming decades. Most people want to reach old age but it’s almost always accompanied with an unspoken caveat of decent health which sadly isn’t the case for lots of people. Hopefully you mean voluntary euthanasia. Involuntary euthansia is just murder with a posher name.

whumpthereitis · 04/07/2022 17:42

Sofadog · 04/07/2022 17:27

Really uncomfortable with some of the comments on here that seem to suggest it would be more unfair to do this to people who can’t but have tried to have children. As if somehow just having this for people making a conscious choice is ok. Once again pedalling the narrative that people who choose not to have children are somehow worth less in society. It’s a shitty idea for everyone that would be affected.

Those that choose not to have children often have more disposable income, and there will always be those resentful of this and seek to ‘right’ it. It’s usually the same ones that present their having children as being a selfless sacrifice they made on behalf of society.

AffIt · 04/07/2022 17:44

Sofadog · 04/07/2022 17:27

Really uncomfortable with some of the comments on here that seem to suggest it would be more unfair to do this to people who can’t but have tried to have children. As if somehow just having this for people making a conscious choice is ok. Once again pedalling the narrative that people who choose not to have children are somehow worth less in society. It’s a shitty idea for everyone that would be affected.

This.

I feel nothing but sympathy for those who want children and can't have them, but I don't have children because I don't want children: there is no amount of money you could pay me that would change my mind.

I find the notion that I'm some kind of incubator that could be bought as more than a little offensive.

hatchyu · 04/07/2022 17:44

All of our demands for a workforce can be met by immigration

Are you immigrant? I think it's a bit offensive when people just assume immigrants (who are often demonised) are desperate to come & meet "our" needs. Like ai said the UK will be in competition with other countries who also desperately need immigrants so immigrants will hold more of the power. why will the immigrants want to leave their counties in the future? I think we will see increased migration from the UK to other countries as young people will have better opportunities elsewhere. i'm very grateful my dc have dual citizenship

FortonServices · 04/07/2022 17:46

Acidburn · 04/07/2022 13:41

Hi all

Just saw the below article on LBC news:

www.lbc.co.uk/news/childless-tax-birthrate-uk-cost-of-living-paul-morland/

AIBU to think that this insane?

Does that include the infertile?

Does it include those who chose not to have children because they didn't want to pass on various illnesses, including mental ill health?

Childless adults are already disadvantaged by the system we have. They pay just as much into the system as parents but get very little back. Childless working adults heavily subsidise single parents working part time on top up benefits. Probably not a popular fact to point out on mumsnet 😂

If anything, childless adults should pay less tax.

whumpthereitis · 04/07/2022 17:47

AffIt · 04/07/2022 17:44

This.

I feel nothing but sympathy for those who want children and can't have them, but I don't have children because I don't want children: there is no amount of money you could pay me that would change my mind.

I find the notion that I'm some kind of incubator that could be bought as more than a little offensive.

Show quote history

Yep. The idea that because someone freely made the choice not to have children means they should be penalized for it isn’t exactly an attractive one either.

MarshaBradyo · 04/07/2022 17:47

hatchyu · 04/07/2022 17:44

All of our demands for a workforce can be met by immigration

Are you immigrant? I think it's a bit offensive when people just assume immigrants (who are often demonised) are desperate to come & meet "our" needs. Like ai said the UK will be in competition with other countries who also desperately need immigrants so immigrants will hold more of the power. why will the immigrants want to leave their counties in the future? I think we will see increased migration from the UK to other countries as young people will have better opportunities elsewhere. i'm very grateful my dc have dual citizenship

Climate change will be a push

Countries that get more unbearable will cause shifts

MarshaBradyo · 04/07/2022 17:49

I did move to the U.K. and my parents and family have done various moves so we’re quite mobile - not hugely but do tend to make big moves once

So I don’t see it as too bad - London was a huge pull for many of us

chiffchaffchiff · 04/07/2022 17:53

hatchyu · 04/07/2022 17:44

All of our demands for a workforce can be met by immigration

Are you immigrant? I think it's a bit offensive when people just assume immigrants (who are often demonised) are desperate to come & meet "our" needs. Like ai said the UK will be in competition with other countries who also desperately need immigrants so immigrants will hold more of the power. why will the immigrants want to leave their counties in the future? I think we will see increased migration from the UK to other countries as young people will have better opportunities elsewhere. i'm very grateful my dc have dual citizenship

I'm not the OP but I'm an immigrant and I have been here for years. Not sure I want to stay if they're going to punish me for being childless though.

FortonServices · 04/07/2022 17:54

Favvi · 04/07/2022 14:27

The most awful thing about this proposal is that it'll result in children being born to people who don't want them and just see them as dollar signs.

Yep. And those children are unlikely to grow up to be net contributors.

Invest in early years education and family support for the children born to shitty parents and help them to become productive members of society.

FortonServices · 04/07/2022 17:57

Climate change will be a push. Countries that get more unbearable will cause shifts

Yes, and the U.K. will become attractive to immigrants due to this.

Twentypast · 04/07/2022 18:01

Clarinet1 · 04/07/2022 14:00

So I have had a lifetime of sadness and sometimes tears at not being able to have children and now somebody is saying I should be financially worse off too?!?!?!?!?

This is me too. Years and years of trying, stress and tears and then be taxed at the end of it.

hatchyu · 04/07/2022 18:05

Climate change will be a push. Countries that get more unbearable will cause shifts

Personally I don't think that if we get to the point that millions of climate refugees are flooding into America & Europe that the majority of people here will be celebrating more tax payers!

YesNoMaybeNot · 04/07/2022 18:06

OperaStation · 04/07/2022 14:00

I think it’s a good idea. We all depend on there being a younger generation. We are all f**ked if there is no younger generation and that’s the direction we’re heading in.

At the moment it’s those having children who are overwhelmingly funding the existence of the next generation even though we all benefit from it.

I also agree with educating women about having children earlier in life. I’m always gob smacked by the number who wait until they’re in their 40s. Mumsnet is full of women asking if they’re too old to have kids at 40 something and they will always be reassured by lots of people who have friends who had babies in their 40s. But this is totally misleading. Often it’s not their 1st, often they’ve had to go through hell to have that baby (think several rounds of IVF), and nobody tells you about the thousands of women who did leave it until they were in the 40s only to discover it’s never going to happen for them. Only this week I was speaking to a friend in her mid 40s who has given up hope after multiple rounds of IVF and a horribly late term miscarriage. We need to stop lying to women and telling them they can have it all.

ODFOD. I say this as someone who has a DD born sleeping and many miscarriages.

Adding to my pain you now want to tax me more.

I hope to goodness you or someone you love never have to go through the pain DH and I have.

Anxiernie · 04/07/2022 18:07

Some people don't want kids. Why should they essentially be punished for that? Not everyone wants or is suitable to be a parent and they should be able to live that way without being taxed for it FFS.

hatchyu · 04/07/2022 18:07

Are migrants driven by desperation attractive to the population. The Ukraine situation would suggest not.

Bubblebubblebah · 04/07/2022 18:09

hatchyu · 04/07/2022 18:07

Are migrants driven by desperation attractive to the population. The Ukraine situation would suggest not.

If UK keeps going the way it is now, it may not be as attractive as some may hope