How would you want to be told a child did not want to know your children?

[everythingssogrey]

My child plays with two children who live near.
I am very good friends with the mum.
The children were playing together and we were doing mutual childcare, which was great.
But my child (age 7) no longer wants to be around the two children because they are mean to her. They will hit and be cruel and the mother doesn't really remedy it.

If it were my child I would make it clear in no uncertain terms the behaviour was not acceptable, but these children get told no then literally nothing else happens, they just ignore that and carry on.

It's emerged over time and got worse and my child doesn't want to know them.

How best to tell mum? Obviously she will be offended! Is there a best way to let her know my child will not be playing with her children? Or should I just let the children know? We will be spending time in one another's company, but I won't be putting my child around them specifically for play again, just the children will be present when me and mum are together, sometimes, but she won't be expected to interact - think seeing one another in the street or at the same venue by chance.

Any advice is appreciated.

I'd just tell her the truth. Your DD doesn't want to play with them because they hit her and do x,y,z (mean things) to her.
Your friend will no doubt be offended. But what choice do you have? Your first duty is to your DD. It won't be the last time doing right by your child causes conflict in other areas, but its just the way it is unfortunately.
I certainly wouldn't try to avoid her without being straight about it. She'll know something is wrong and will be upset anyway. At least this way she'll know why.

DC change as they grow up, and what is a problem now might not be in 6 months.

So I'd not give a specific reason, let alone comment on her DC's current behaviour. I'd just not arrange anything, and if she does I'd decline, with no further explanation than: 'they aren't getting on well at the moment, so I think we need to leave it for a while'

I would say something like:

The kids aren’t getting along at the moment, so I think is best if they have a bit of a break from each other.

But only if asked directly for a play date by the mum. If the kids came calling, I’d just say ‘Sorry, she’s busy today.’

If asked you could always say 'there has been a lot of hitting the last few times and my daughter was upset afterwards so we would prefer not to at the moment'. So not 'your children are doing this' more 'this happened', it sounds a bit less like you're apportioning blame. However I do think it's ok to stand up for your daughter and make it clear that it's not acceptable for her to be hurt

Just say "They don't play well together". I have a friend whose DD doesn't want to play with DS anymore (she does not appreciate the poo jokes, Pokémon lectures and predator facts. I do not blame her.) My friend just suggests meeting without the children because "They don't play well together." DS has lots of other friends so he hasn't asked, and I'm not remotely offended.

What is the ‘mutual childcare’ arrangement? If it’s either a formal arrangement, eg your DD goes to theirs after school on a Wednesday, or the sort of ad hoc arrangement whereby your friend might suddenly ask you to look after her DCs for an hour or two at short notice, you are going to have to say something in advance, otherwise you’ll be letting your friend down. If there's no dependency you can just wait until it comes up.

I do agree with several others that it should be quite a general comment though, such as, “Freda has been getting a bit upset at the playdates, so I’m going to give her some time away from Daisy and Jim for the time being, but I would love to catch up with you over some wine one evening soon – how about Wednesday?”

It is so easy to offend another parent with a comment about their children’s behaviour, so if your friend tries to find out why, I would try to keep making it all about your DD’s needs, however tempted you might be to point out the specific reasons!

Also, be prepared to stand firm if your friend pushes back and says she’ll keep an extra eye on them. "It just isn't working for Freda at the moment." You do need to stand up for your DD and make sure she is not forced to play with the others.

What would you do and say now if you had your time again? Would you intervene and speak to the parent or other child before yours retaliated?

How about saying 'oh no sorry not for a while....let's give it a rest...yours and mine have fallen out' - if they ask why you can truthfully say you 'don't know' (as you weren't there.)

it may well have been bullying in which case you don't want to stay silent. It might have been something else happened (you weren't there so you don't know). And you definitely want to support your own child so - their wishes are paramount.

It is also putting the responsiblity back on the parent to sort out whatever it is that happened.

At the same time acknowledging that 'fall outs' do happen on a regular basis between kids and sometimes blow over.

Two of my friends had this problem (I wasn't particularly involved as they live very close to each other but I live far away so don't see either family that often). They were good enough friends to be able to have an honest chat about it - not in an accusing way, just in a "amelie doesn't seem to be getting on with the boys that well at the moment does she, hopefully just a phase but I'm thinking it might be an idea to keep them apart for a while, as you know how stubborn she is, and if I try to make her play with anyone she goes in the other direction and is determined to have nothing to do with them". It has made it more difficult for them to do family stuff together, but hasn't affected the adults' friendship.

And you can still do the 'let's meet up for wine thing - how about wed. ' that would be good to do as there may be things you don't know - or something the parent is struggling with...and might appreciate a chin wag about...

Parenting doesn't come with an instruction manual or training...

In such a situation I would say "our children don't seem to get along very well these days." If pressed for details, then something like "there has been some physical fighting going on" or "your kids seem to enjoy rough play and mine doesn't".

Hmm I think the issue here is you actually want to say something to hour child- which is totally understandable.
If it was just a case of them not wanting to play in future, that is easily managed without creating any drama/ issue. But you want to Share the reason because you are (not unreasonably) upset at your friends lack of action to stop her children bullying yours. In which case I think you need to be direct and tackle the issue head on. Don’t tell her in the context of “my child isn’t going to play with yours anymore” that will come across as passive aggressive and childish and inevitably cause conflict. Say to your friend that your child is upset and you are too and explain why honestly x

*you want to say something to your friend
I mean

This.

Dial it back a bit, make some other playdates for your child so he / she is otherwise engaged. It may mean you see a bit less of your friend for a while, but at the end of the day the kids will choose their friends and you choose yours, its nice if your friends kids get on with yours but its not always the case. I would just tell your friend that your child needs to expand her circle of friends and has been invited for other playdates with kids he / she likes. If your friend pushes it, then you should tell her that your child has mentioned that her children can be quite physical and a bit mean (which he/she doesn't like) and although its probably just a phase, your child is not enjoying their interactions with her kids lately so its best to dial it back a little. Unfortunately either your fiend will accept this or she will be offended but either way I think your child's feelings should come first.

I just said that my daughter wasn't keen on a play date, and when asked why, said that she really hadn't enjoyed playing with them recently. Got something along the lines of, 'oh girls will be girls, and yours and you need to harden up', because we'd already discussed issues between the girls, and I said 'nope, we really don't, she doesn't have to play with someone if she doesn't want to, particularly if they're being mean to her, and I certainly don't have to facilitate it', and that was the end of the phone call, and the friendship. No great loss. Her younger child, was a lovely kid, but the older child, the golden little mini me, was a brat. Just like her mother.

As the adult it’s up to you to say something not your young child really.
I think it’s a situation that happens pretty often.

Ice found the best at to deal with it is for your child to be unavailable for play time and time again.

i wouldn’t make any big announcement because it may turn around in the months and years to come and she may enjoy their company again and it’s important to stay friends with the other mum if you enjoy her company yourself.

OP, it's absolutely ok to make an excuse up. A social lie.
Yes, she will see through it, if you're lucky.
But you will not have hurt her as much as if you are blatant.
She might take it on board and make some changes.
You really, really don't have to spell it out. Unless she's massively thick.

Be honest OP, you need to speak up for your daughter. The other mother, however incapable of discipline, needs to know you're not someone who allows her daughter to be hit without standing up for her. What do you do when it happens? Just let the little shits feel your wrath. I couldn't sit back silently.

Funnily enough, this is what I was thinking. If you can't be honest with your friend, what is the point in the friendship.

iijkk you sound very embittered and you're not offering very helpful advice! Nobody is saying their own child is perfect, and who the hell cares about kids' gossip about other people?!

Well, first of all, it doesn't really matter whether the child is hitting the OP's daughter through lack of discipline or whether it's something they genuinely can't control. The end result is the OP's daughter being hit and bullied either way, and she shouldn't have to put up with that.

Secondly, if multiple parents are telling you that your child is a horror, then yes, I'm afraid your child probably is a horror. It might not be your fault. It might not be your child's fault. But regardless of the reason for your child's behaviour, it obviously still made them hard for other children to be around. All children are horrible sometimes and all children bicker and fall out and sulk and are mean to each other occasionally, but if you are repeatedly being told by lots of different people that your child isn't nice to play with, that is not a coincidence.

If the parent is witnessing her child physically harming another child and not acting appropriately, then yes she is useless at discipline.

But what IS acting appropriately?

My DC knows it's wrong to hit.

He is told no and removed when he does it and misses out as a result.
We've had a million conversations on why it's wrong, why he must not do it, have tried punishments like time out, have tried shouting at him, have discussed what he could do instead when he feels like he might explode more times than I can remember.
He still continues to do it.

I've taken to watching him like a hawk and learning what his triggers are. It's that, or keep him home alone forever.

My child still hits. I am far from a useless parent.

It's easy to discipline a child when they're an easy child.

Well it's a bit of a natural consequence that if a child hits other children, other children aren't going to want to play with them, and other children's parents aren't going to want to facilitate play dates with them.

Not easy for the parents, if they're doing their best, however, that is a 'them and their child problem', not everybody else's problem.

Yet I am sure you would understand if another child did not want to play with yours.