Pride doesn’t represent me

[Vegansausageroll]

Just been watching Joe Lycett’s big pride party.
It was all sexualised smut. It’s ‘furries’ , kink, drag, sex and innuendos galore. This isn’t all what pride is about! It’s supposed to be about our sexuality and our rights and not being ashamed of who we are. But there is no representation for young people like I was! I want people to be themselves and express themselves but it all just seems so extreme now!

I’m a middle aged gay woman. I like books and countryside walks!

I am very worried about equal rights and the way they are, once again, under threat.
I have nothing in common with the people that now dominate ‘pride’. The last woman’s group I went to has long been shut down, as have the lesbian groups I used to attend back in the day. I’m worried gay youth are being sent a message that their sexuality must be linked to a certain type of ‘lifestyle’ when many of us just want to live a regular life the same as our straight friends - the only difference is the sex of our partners 🤷‍♀️.

Eh ?

How do you work that out ?

A joe Lycett programme doesn’t represent me either. You look at most of the people at Pride and they are just ordinary, unshowy LGBTQ + who understand the importance of visibility.
You want to be represented? Then show up.

So start something yourself

I agree, that's why I opt out. But it riles me when I hear people, particularly heterosexual people, call it a celebration of diversity. I hate the corporate bullshit and pride used as a marketing gimmick.

Someone up thread said that we now have equal rights. In this country, we may legally do so but in much of the world that is utter bullshit. In this country there is still much prejudice and ignorance, as shown in this thread. That's why I chose to comment in the hope of letting people know that pride exists for a reason, and that it is for LGBTQ+ people, not everyone.

What now?
Gosh are lesbians not even allowed a mumsnet thread anymore .
Is it homophobic for fairly dull, middle aged lesbians to exist now? Maybe I would be less ‘homophobic’ if I donned a leather dog mask because of course dressing up as a sexualised animal is the true meaning of gay pride and not being a same sex attracted woman.

I have friends who absolutely adore Pride and everything it stands for, for them the parties and parades are no different to the antics of the kids we used to see on Ibiza Uncovered, a very hedonistic lifestyle all out in the open surrounded by like minded people with few inhibitions.

But just as Ibiza Uncovered didn’t represent the nightlife and experiences of every straight Brit who ever travelled abroad, Pride doesn’t represent some of my more subdued gay friends, they would be mortified to wear rainbow anything and they much rather prefer a quieter life.

The rights of both sets of friends are fundamentally what Pride initially represented, those notions of freedom and equality still stand true whether you’re off your face on ket wearing a gimp suit or sat watching reruns of Last of the summer wine in matching White Company pjs.

Genuine question from a heterosexual woman in her 40s who loves books and countryside walks. Is this not the same as me watching, for example, Love Island, and feeling totally out of touch with youth culture?

Back in the day I would watch The Word and revel in the seemingly hedonistic, glamour and crazy antics (from the safety of my bedroom!) and my mum found out and banned it from the house!

Is this what is happening with Pride, it's now "owned" by a different generation and the older generation have very little common ground with them?

‘I think his show will always be like that. There are a bunch of Pride programmes throughout the month that represent different circumstances.’

yup. I went to my first Pride more than 30 years ago, and there were still the boys in chaps with their arses hanging out and the rest. And obvs then, as now, those are the photos that get shown in media and on socials.

For all those stating that Marsha P Johnson was a gay male and/or transvestite. She chose her pronouns she/her. She used the terminology to describe herself that existed in that era.

She did not start the Stonewall riots but absolutely did play a part.

Who is trying to erase who?

Celebration of diversity was used before the corporates were involved.
The rainbow flag was created to reflect the communities diversity.

Yes. They have always been there.

Ds isn't interested, he says it is full of kids & in no way represents the LGBTQ+ community, he has been in the marches & demos against conversion therapy & is involved in the LGBTQ+ group for the Green Party as he says that there is still a long way to go before LGBTQ+ people have equality with the rest of the population.

There’s really no place for this kind of homophobia/ lesbophobia.
You can’t simultaneously say you represent lesbians while trying to enforce their erasure.

Thank you theclangersarecoming Another older lesbian here who gave up on Pride years ago and watches in despair at what 's happening. And to be told that as a lesbian feminist I'm a slur on Pride - what a vile thing to say.

Thank you @theclangersarecoming for articulating that. As someone who has come to the realisation they are bisexual over the last year, I feel no affinity with Pride or mainstream LGBTQI+ culture and have basically just kept it to myself.

‘I would be less ‘homophobic’ if I donned a leather dog mask because of course dressing up as a sexualised animal’

wise up. When’s the last time you actually went to aPride? I’ve been to A LOT of them, and I’ve still only ever seen that in photos, because out of the 10s of 1000s of people taking part in Pride, marches, parties, whatever there might be a handful. But what’s more interesting to media and in socials? The people who look exactly like ‘straight’ people, the families and kids, it is it the odd balls??

I had to turn off the Lycett show. Whilst it’s great that people can do what they want, and diversity is celebrated, this type of thing seems to assume everyone who is not heterosexual is very in your face and OTT. Which actually perpetuates stereotypes. I suppose it’s a bit like Black Lives Matter where there are years of under representation to be addressed so it’s a bit like everything is on speed at the moment and hopefully in the end, we won’t have to differentiate in this way as everyone is simply accepted.

All the people saying start something yourself… I have organised women’s clubs 20 years ago, we even had a popular lesbian book club at one point 😄! I live rurally now and even when I go to the city - it just isn’t the same now and doesn’t get the turn out. I am more than happy to socialise with my straight friends and people with likeminded interests rather than seek out friends based on their sexuality.

I have a ‘vocational’ job working with young people, I volunteer for a helpline, I have attended protests and movements throughout my life. I don’t need to ‘show up’ in any other ways. I just want to live my life. I want to campaign for equal rights for gay people around the world.
I do not want to have myself equated with what is considered as ‘pride’ these days.

If people did some of the things that are done on Pride marches in any other public context, they'd be arrested.

Nobody “chose their pronouns” in that era 🙄 They performed roles and acts as performers. Drag was an accepted role for gay men to play as part of a gay male subculture. It wasn’t at that point either an identity or an inner essence.

Please do go and read some old fashioned boring actual gay history, and while you’re at it you could look at the idea of identity and identity politics, which simply didn’t exist in its current form before about 1995+. You could start with Eve Sedgwick’s Epistemology of the Closet, in order to understand how gay men traditionally made use of theatrical and role-playing drag and camp subcultures as performance theatre, but that that didn’t necessarily mean they thought they were women inside — by a long way.

I'm sorry I haven't read the whole thread but just wanted to tell it from our friends perspective.
They were a gay couple way back in the 70's and took part in the original pride march. They were beaten and arrested at subsequent marches.
They are now in their seventies and view Pride completely differently now.
I think people forget that originally it was about the law and the lack of freedom they had.
Now it's a celebrating of Diversity.
We forget the miners who marched the first pride, we forget that 'coming out of the closet' wasn't even an option.
We have those rights now.

Bit we should be marching for equality in pensions, i the right to be recognised as medical appointees.
The struggle has so not been won so while Pride is a celebration of being the best we can be we should not forget the nature of the original pride , which was a protest at the inequalities. And many of them still remain.

Yes of course it was. I don't hate the flag. I hate that organisations who do not give a shit about LGBTQ+ rights use the flag as a, marketing gimmick.

It is not celebration of diversity (ie everyone person on the planet). It is celebration of LGBTQ+ people. Because we have historically been, and still are, persecuted.

I don't know whether you're being unreasonable or not and as a heterosexual woman it isn't really my place to say BUT I did feel decidedly uncomfortable by my 19yr old son dressing up in lilac shorts, lilac tie dye shirt and turquoise socks for work last week as his office we dressing up in support of pride! Absolutely nothing wrong with supporting pride BUT There was a prize for the best outfit. It just seemed all wrong - how can LGBTQ+ people be viewed as equal as they should be when whole offices of people are doing that?!

it seems to be a huge shift from lesbian and gay rights to identity - whether that’s kink, gender, trans issues etc

Agree. I don't have any difficulty understanding that movements need to evolve to reflect a changing landscape, but I also know gay men and women who now feel excluded from Pride.

When the very people Pride proports to represent feel excluded, something is wrong.

@Vegansausageroll You are older. Young people do not want to go to the same things as you.
This is like someone complaining young people do not go to the sixties disco they organise.