Moral dilemma

[Cloudy90]

it’s a will and inheritance one

My friend Sandy was married to Bob but he passed away last year. Bob had been married before to Trish and had two sons (Bill and Ben). Bob paid Trish 65% of the equity when they divorced and Bill and Ben moved into a house with Trish. Sandy was with Bob when he divorced Trish but their relationship started years after the split.

Sandy helped Bob out financially as it was a long messy divorce using her life savings and some inheritance, she knows this wasn’t sensible but Sandy and Bob were desperate to start there lives.

Bob kept the marital home and rented it out to a relative (Steve) who covered the mortgage payments so Bob wasn’t making a profit. Bob passed away and steve has moved in with his girlfriend so Sandy wants to sell. Bill and Ben are wanting their “inheritance” but there isn’t any as Sandy inherited everything. They have got solicitors involved, and she doesn’t know what to do. A few things to note

bob passed away young and unexpectedly, with no savings

trish was given 65% of the equity so Sandy doesn’t think Bill and Ben should be looking at Bob’s estate for their whole inheritance

trish spent her 65% and doesn’t own a property

there was a verbal agreement between Bob and sandy that when the house was sold she would receive the money to cover the amount she lent to Bob

bob and Sandy had their own house but it was a new mortgage so not much equity, sandy has been left with an expensive mortgage and may have to downsize, so needs as much money as possible

the sale of the house won’t cover the sum Sandy lent Bob due to the remortgage to pay Trish off

I’ve helped Sandy as much as I can and said she could give them a small sum each from the sale of the house, even £2000 each. I don’t think they will get far legally as they are adults now. But I think Bob would like them to have a little gift?

what do you think?

IANAL but sounds like bill & Ben are trying it on.

Bob didn't leave them any "inheritance" (partly because of the settlement with Trish). What he left was a debt to Sandy. It's a pity that it was all informal but and verbal but I don't really think there is any moral dilemma here.

I think you are right. And I think I am glad that I am not Sandy.

This should be a reminder to everyone that it doesn’t matter how old or young you are, you should a) have a will and b) keep track of your finances. I hope Sandy can prove the loans she made to Bob.

Okay so this is a bit confusing.

there was a family home. Bob kept it but rented it out so his ex wife and two sons moved into rented accommodation.

Bob bough my his ex wife’s share - but sandy actually paid for that.

Bob’s assets were sole ownership of the family home and half ownership of his and sandy’s home. All left to sandy.

I am sure sandy has received legal advice.

I can see how morally the boys look at this and think it is unfair. They will have no idea sandy bought their mum out. They will just think sandy now gets their childhood home - and will probably assume it is owned outright.

in sandy’s shoes I would sell the family home deduct the loan and gift 50% of the remaining quiet to the boys. And be very open about how I reached this amount.

Yeah I agree, without a will Bill and Ben arent entitled to anything, as his wife the full estate goes to Sandy.
Sandy needs to look after herself.

in sandy’s shoes I would sell the family home deduct the loan and gift 50% of the remaining quiet to the boys. And be very open about how I reached this amount.

As the op said 'the sale of the house won’t cover the sum Sandy lent Bob due to the remortgage to pay Trish off', the 'remainder' may be negative.

Sandy needs a no-nonsense lawyer who can clearly communicate the reality of the situation to B&B, I think.

Selling the house won’t even cover the loan by the sound of it.

—————

Aside from the fact that they’re not entitled to any inheritance, they’ve already benefited from Sandy providing the money in the first place. There’s no moral obligation here imo, she owes them nothing.

There is no inheritance for Bill and Ben, Sandy needs to look after herself.

If Bob didn't make a will it all goes to Sandy. She owes them nothing but may wish to leave them something in her will .

Who is the beneficiary of bobs life insurance?

Is there a will? What is bobs estate worth? If it’s £0 or - then there is no inheritance

A combination of mortgage payments and house price increases should mean the equity is now of sufficient size to repay the loan.

OP how long is it since the divorce?

did Bon not have life insurance? I can’t imagine have two mortgages and no life cover.

Sandy should sell the house to recoup the money she lent to Bob. Since the proceeds probably won't even cover the loan, there is no inheritance for the two sons.

Trish and bobs agreement has nothing to do with the sons it was between them two. Sandy should give the boys each a token payment otherwise they land up with nothing from their dad and lawyers will land up with a huge chunk of it should they go to court over it.

Sandy needs to sell the house to cover her debt. She should not pay any money to anyone else.

trish was given 65% of the equity so Sandy doesn’t think Bill and Ben should be looking at Bob’s estate for their whole inheritance

This is irrelevant.

Sandy shouldn’t be looking to recover her ‘loan’. It wasn’t a loan in the normal sense, it was money that moved between a married couple so that they could fulfil the plans that they both wanted.

Sandy should be left with her home, including her husbands share, but she should not be expecting to take all of the proceeds of the marital home. Any equity in the marital home should be spilt equally between her and the children.

Taking everything her husband left and leaving nothing for his children would be immoral. I hope she’s being fair with her husbands personal possessions even if she isn’t inclined to be with the rest of their inheritance.

Nonsense.

Your personal feelings are, fortunately, not relevant to the law.

Sandy (in England) inherits what Bob had by default if he left no will. That's the primary legal point. If his adult children were not reliant on him, they aren't immediately entitled to anything.

Unfortunately Sandy needs a competent lawyer who can talk to her about the financial position she is in, and I agree with a PP that writing a letter outlining who owned what and how much of it Sandy paid for (rather than their Dad as they seem to believe ) is probably worth the cost. It wouldn't be hard to show where the money came from if it's a new mortgage.

She's selling up anyway, so hopefully she can find something that suits her and the two money grabbing adults will get what they deserve.

By all means, give them what possessions can be offered but if that means Sandy sitting on the floor rather than on a sofa or going without a bed, that would be ludicrous. Assuming he doesn't have gold hidden under the bed, then sharing out beloved family pictures, childhood photos, jewellery or whatever is perfectly normal.

It was money moving between a married couple on the agreement it would be paid back. It’s sandy’s life savings and inheritance and shouldn’t be given to the bill and Ben

Ok so the boys’ mothers’ irresponsibility (or otherwise) in spending all the 65% money isn’t Sandy’s problem.
Sandy + Bob owned 35% of the previous marriage money.
If there’s none left from the house sale after deducting the loan then there’s nothing for ANYBODY to inherit. Sandy isn’t inheriting either. She’s getting her OWN money back

Her expensive mortgage shouldn’t be an issue - that should be covered by the sale of the new house.

I think a small financial sum if anything is fair. But If sandy is struggling financially with her own mortgage I think that takes priority.

I give sandy lots of luck 🍀 .

Also adding that Sandy struggling with her own mortgage has nothing to do with the inheritance.
There’s a reason why mortgage brokers and advisors talk to people about income
protection plans. Yea they get a commission for recommending products but these things are really important.

If there was extra money left post loan payment then regardless of Sandy’s financial position the boys should get a share.

I think his children should inherit his house whether Sandy lent him money or not.

I think his children should inherit his house whether Sandy lent him money or not.

Bob didn't think so and he was their dad.

Thank you for all the replies.

most of you agree with what i thought which is a relief.

sandy needs the money that she lent Bob more now then ever.

Hi OP,
The sums involved are probably too small for the following to be an issue (but I think it's worth a mention as a lot of people seem to be under the impression that if someone dies without a will everything goes to their spouce).

Quote from:
www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will

The husband, wife or civil partner keeps all the assets (including property), up to £270,000, and all the personal possessions, whatever their value.

The remainder of the estate will be shared as follows:

the husband, wife or civil partner gets an absolute interest in half of the remainderthe other half is then divided equally between the surviving children

If a son or daughter has died before the deceased died, their children will inherit in their place.
End quote

So if it was a large estate the children would be legally entitled to something.

The only bit of the OP that is relevant to the outcome of the situation is that sandy inherited everything

I presume that is stipulated in a will, there fore his adult children have no recourse.

While it might seem "morally correct" for Sandy to give a share of the sale of the house to Bill & Ben, it is not a requirement.

The estate and property is much less than £270,000 but thanks for the information.