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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be upset with in laws?

40 replies

NCforgoodreason001 · 03/07/2022 12:13

I've been with DH for a very long time. We have DC together and moved to live by his mum.

Before we moved MIL ended up homeless, she couldn't pay her bills and kept getting behind on the rent. She sofa surfed for a long time between houses.
Then she moved and got back on her feet. She got ahead of her rent, on her bills and seemed like she learnt a valuable lesson and her not paying her bills was a thing of the past.

The past year she's gotten really behind on her bills again, she's made DH her legal appointee for her money. And makes him deal with phone calls for everything saying she can't do them.
her landlord recently rang DH as she gave him his number and we find out she's behind on her rent by a lot. We sit down and get her to agree to a payment plan. She kept to it for a few months and then broke the plan. Qeue another phone call to DH from the landlord about the rent and arrears.

Then she had a bailiff turn up for a different household bill she's not paid. Sat down with her trying to make payment plans, and she was being very difficult saying she has no money to pay for anything even though they've said if she doesn't make a payment plan the bailiff will return. DH also thinks there's more bills she's very behind on and will end up with more bailiffs.

I don't know how to deal with this going forward it's like getting blood from a stone.
DH has had enough and says if she doesn't deal with it then it's tough if she looses everything as she can't expect to live life getting away with not paying. DH has a sibling who doesn't live near by, and I've said we should contact them about the situation but he's saying there's no point and MIL will be upset if we do this. What do we do?
I'm getting to the point where I've had enough of this, we can't and won't give her money towards the bills as in our eyes she's had money and chosen not to pay for them.

I'm just very frustrated as I feel like I'm babysitting a grown adult.
Moving is not a option currently due to where DC are in life (at important stage with school life.) but I find it's getting me down and I feel like im going to end up snapping at her if doesn't take responsibility for her actions.

OP posts:
courtrai · 03/07/2022 12:16

Does she have capacity to deal with her own affairs? Sounds like there could be an underlying MH issue. Personally I'd look into a Power of Attorney and get DH to fully manage her finances, as this is a repeat situation it doesn't sound like it's going to go away anytime soon

Original poster
NCforgoodreason001 · 03/07/2022 12:24

Yes she does have the capacity to deal with her own affairs, she's still quite young but doesn't want to deal with them. Just buries her head in the sand and when we ask why she doesn't tell us before it's to late she says she's worried we will kick off at her.

How do we get attorney? She would not
Be happy with us managing her money.

OP posts:
newbiename · 03/07/2022 12:24

Same , has she got capacity ? Would they both let your husband take over her finances?
I think the sibling should be told it's a lot for you two to cope with

Tomanyhandbags · 03/07/2022 12:26

If your mil is receiving benefits it's possible to have the rent plus arrears paid directly to the landlord also payments to utility companies, not sure if this is applicable helpful as not clear where her income comes from. Another possible solution is to arrange for all direct debits to be paid on the day income is paid.

Ffsmakeitstop · 03/07/2022 12:32

I would let yourself snap at her. She is not worried about upsetting you and DH when he has to deal with her debts.
You need to leave her to sort herself out as hard as that sounds.
I have been in the position of having lots of creditors, close to being homeless but I got myself out of it because it's no one's responsibility but mine.

LordEmsworth · 03/07/2022 12:34

Age has nothing to do with whether she has mental capacity. Lots of younger people struggle to cope with finances due to lots of reasons; and if your husband is her legal appointee, presumably at some point they have both stated she doesn't have capacity to cope? "Appointee" isn't just "someone to help me".

I agree, I would be telling her - we will be stepping away unless you agree to a formal arrangement like Power of Attorney to allow us to manage your money for you; and I'd absolutely tell the sibling, they need to know & understand the situation.

If she genuinely has got capacity then you could look at a third party mandate which would allow your husband access to her accounts to set up payments, check balances etc.

It's tough love in some ways; but also you clearly think that "oh she just can't be bothered", whereas it may well be "she cannot cope with managing money and has masked it for a short period but can't keep up the pretence". I do get your frustration, but if this is genuinely outside her control then it'll just make you feel bad to be nagging at her, without having the effect that you need it to have...

MichelleScarn · 03/07/2022 12:35

Ffsmakeitstop · 03/07/2022 12:32

I would let yourself snap at her. She is not worried about upsetting you and DH when he has to deal with her debts.
You need to leave her to sort herself out as hard as that sounds.
I have been in the position of having lots of creditors, close to being homeless but I got myself out of it because it's no one's responsibility but mine.

Exactly, sounds like she's continuing to behave like this because she knows she'll always get pulled out of the shit. Look up learned helplessness.

Greenberg · 03/07/2022 12:38

Why doesn't she just have all the bills put on direct debit and the rent put on standing order? I'm not very well organised and I used to struggle before you could do this, but now there's no excuse as you can pay everything this way or online.

The thing is you can't demand to be treated like an adult (manage your own finances) but then behave like a child (run to your DH) when it all goes tits up.

Original poster
NCforgoodreason001 · 03/07/2022 12:40

She can cope because she has other payments for other things (I can't say as it's outing!) and manages them perfectly fine that's where her money is going. Rather than household bills and rent.

Would Power of Attorney mean they would come to us to pay her debts? because we don't have that sort of money lying about, I don't fully understand it. Or would it mean we would have access to her banking and pay her bills directly for her?

OP posts:
WeAreTheHeroes · 03/07/2022 12:46

Power of attorney for financial matters would allow you/your DH to manage her money for her. It doesn't make you her guarantor which is where you guarantee to cover payments she should be making if she doesn't make them.

Does she have a gambling or other addiction because not paying your rent and utilities if a really serious omission. If she's on benefits then getting the rent paid directly to the landlord is an option as she's clearly failing to manage her money.

PutinIsAWarCriminal · 03/07/2022 12:49

Is she doing the "I'm a helpless woman and can't do anything for myself" thing? I know one like this, she had her adult dc running around in circles until they wised up and made her actually get a job.
If I were your dh I would take her for an appointment with a CAB money adviser. They can take immediate action to hold off bailiffs. It might be an option to apply for insolvency/ a Debt Relief Order which they will help with. They would be able to signpost to other agencies.

Original poster
NCforgoodreason001 · 03/07/2022 12:53

WeAreTheHeroes · 03/07/2022 12:46

Power of attorney for financial matters would allow you/your DH to manage her money for her. It doesn't make you her guarantor which is where you guarantee to cover payments she should be making if she doesn't make them.

Does she have a gambling or other addiction because not paying your rent and utilities if a really serious omission. If she's on benefits then getting the rent paid directly to the landlord is an option as she's clearly failing to manage her money.

She has her rent paid directly to the landlord already, however there is about 1/4 left over which she has to pay as they don't cover the whole rent. Looking for cheaper housing is not a option as the rents have gone up so hers is as cheap as we will find it.

OP posts:
Original poster
NCforgoodreason001 · 03/07/2022 12:54

PutinIsAWarCriminal · 03/07/2022 12:49

Is she doing the "I'm a helpless woman and can't do anything for myself" thing? I know one like this, she had her adult dc running around in circles until they wised up and made her actually get a job.
If I were your dh I would take her for an appointment with a CAB money adviser. They can take immediate action to hold off bailiffs. It might be an option to apply for insolvency/ a Debt Relief Order which they will help with. They would be able to signpost to other agencies.

We've tried saying to go to CAB or step change but she doesn't want to sit there and do it. I've even offered if she gives me her incomings and outgoings and permission I'll do it on her behalf but again it's a firm no.

OP posts:
MichelleScarn · 03/07/2022 12:56

Does she/has she ever worked? What's her reasoning for why she can't manage this aspect of her life which results in other people taking control and paying for the not fun parts of life?

LoudingVoice · 03/07/2022 13:01

Why can’t all the bills be set up on direct debit so they’re automatically paid?

What money does she have coming in, is she working or receiving benefits?

What is she spending her money on instead that means there’s nothing left to cover standard bills?

Does she have a gambling or alcohol issue that’s contributing to the financial problems?

LoudingVoice · 03/07/2022 13:03

NCforgoodreason001 · 03/07/2022 12:40

She can cope because she has other payments for other things (I can't say as it's outing!) and manages them perfectly fine that's where her money is going. Rather than household bills and rent.

Would Power of Attorney mean they would come to us to pay her debts? because we don't have that sort of money lying about, I don't fully understand it. Or would it mean we would have access to her banking and pay her bills directly for her?

So once those other bills are paid does she actually have enough left to pay her utilities & rent? Are these credit card debts?

diddl · 03/07/2022 13:26

she's made DH her legal appointee for her money. And makes him deal with phone calls for everything saying she can't do them.

Why did he accept that?

SlouchingTowardsBethlehemAgain · 03/07/2022 13:40

I can't imagine letting my old mum sofa surf.

Stroopwaffels · 03/07/2022 13:43

What is she spending her money on?

Gymnopedie · 03/07/2022 13:45

It's unlikely you would get power of attorney. That is only used when someone does not have the mental capacity any longer to be responsible for their own affairs. Choosing to bury her head in the sand is not a reason. But even if you had it, it doesn't mean that you become personally liable for her debts. It only gives you the right to manage HER money. And if there is none to make payment arrangements on her behalf, but again only based on her income. It doesn't mean the creditors can make you pay.

Walk away from it. Let your DH deal with it his way, and if he gets any more calls he should say he's not responsible for her debts and they should take it up with her.

PeanutButterOnToad · 03/07/2022 13:46

Do you think she is hoping to move in with you and letting herself get into a situation where she risks losing her tenancy so your DH will feel guilty and offer that? That is what it sounds like to me tbh.

IWentAwayIStayedAway · 03/07/2022 13:46

Well if she's saying no to help then you and dh can't be dealing with things. Next time landlord or bailiff appears bat it back to her.

does she have money for fun things?? I think that's what I'm reading ie if it's tennis, she has money for that but not rent??

MichelleScarn · 03/07/2022 13:47

SlouchingTowardsBethlehemAgain · 03/07/2022 13:40

I can't imagine letting my old mum sofa surf.

So would you pay for everything for her for ever? Have let her be devoid of any responsibility?

Bluetrews25 · 03/07/2022 13:48

From what I understood, power of attorney means you can take over financial control when the person concerned does not have capacity. Not before that time. So if she does still have capacity, a POA would not be activated. And if she does not have capacity, then it's too late to draw one up. IIRC - could be wrong.

How about going to the bank with her so he can be a co-signee on accounts? (As long as this does not make him in any way responsible for her debts!)

Why not go to CAB yourself and get them to advise you and DH on how to tackle this?
Or just step away. When she comes to you saying 'I don't know what to do!' say 'gosh, what are you going to do?' Some people are very happy to hand over responsibility. Just be quite sure before you pick it up.
Sounded as if she made him a helper so that he would take over and pay for things himself.

WindsweptNotInteresting · 03/07/2022 13:48

Does she work? Are you sure her income covers her outgoings (outing hobbies non-withstanding)?

I think I would be inclined to say to her that either she lets you sit down with her and look at all her income and outgoings and draw up a budget with CAB/stepchange, OR you get power of attorney OR you are going to have to let her deal with it.

If she has enough money to cover the bills but chooses to spend it on something else, but is also refusing sensible help, then she has to learn the hard way unfrotunately.