To wonder how the hell other people manage it?

[BeatieBourke]

Sorry this is so long.

I've been working full time for almost a month. I retrained during the pandemic and was lucky enough enough to land a really good job straight away. Not amazing mo ey but much better than we're used to, good for round here, and a good step on a career ladder.

DH also works full time and we have one DS,6, nearly 7. Before covid I was at home as he'd not long started school. Then during covid my study fitted pretty well around school (thanks, online lectures!). I've always done most of the school runs at the usual time and park/playtime/quiet time at home after. Towards the end of my course DS did after school club til 4.30 a couple of days days week and loved it. He was often disappointed on days I picked him up at 3.15.

DS is now in wraparound breakast/after school clubs 4 days a week. He goes in between 8 and 8.45 and gets home between 4.30 and 5 depending on the day, with earlier starts meaning earlier pickups. We live 5 minutes from school. He's always enjoyed school and has a nice group of friends.

I think DS is struggling with the change and / or the extra hours out of the house. He is moody, argumentative, fickle, has an answer for everything and will point blank refuse to do whatever the thing is that we've asked of him. Come and get up the table please - it's your favourite! Time to brush your teeth, Turn the TV off, Let's play a game! all met with either "no" or finding the most long winded way around as possible to be avoid doing the thing. He gets surly and sarcastic. He is given calm, clear patient responses, then the consequence clearly spelled out, then the consequence. So: "I've asked you three times to get your pajamas on, if I have to ask you again we'll have to go straight to bed without a a downstairs story" (We always have an in bed story). One. Two. Three. OK, we don't have time for a story now so upstairs for a story in bed please". At which point he either gets inconsolably upset and begs for the story, or refuses to go upstairs. And repeat.

Occasionally, after much of this, I lose my rag and raise my voice. Never screaming. Just a raised voice "I won't ask you again, upstairs now please". Cue inconsolable again. Crying. "I'm sorry. I'm so stupid. It's my fault. I don't deserve a story" (we have never said these things-i don't know where he gets them from and its a bit distressing tbh, but also has the desired effect iyswim). This happens almost every day.

He's always been a cheerful, sunny, funny, happy little boy. This is making everyone's life miserable. I feel incredibly guilty that my working is causing this problem, but I can't afford not to. I could work fewer hours, but not on anywhere near the same pay. We don't have loads of money, we're both on fairly average wages, just beyond the threshold of universal credit.

How the hell do other families make this work? There must be other families with two parents in full time work, surely!? Can you all afford nannys? Do you all have parents who pick the kids up from school? Do the kids just cope better with it after a while?

I think this is made worse by the fact that he's always been an early riser, and this doesn't change when he's had a later night. More tired doesn't = more sleep. In fact it often seems to equal less, as though the adrenaline of being over tired makes him wake up at 5am rather than 5.45, and then he gets even more strung out.

I'm simultaneously wound up by the behaviour and also feel incredibly sorry for him that we can't give him a life that's not such a hamster wheel. Ordinarily I'd think, just hang on until the summer holidays, but then the poor kid is being farmed out to friends, family, or activity clubs 4 days a week and stuck at home with me on my work from home day for the fifth.

I don't know what I'm asking really. Tips for dealing with an over tired 6 yr old? Hacks for working full time with primary aged kids? I just feel like a shit mum whatever I do, and that there's no way to square this circle.

After school clubs can be a bit more chaotic and stimulating. Although most kids are fine, some find it a bit tiring and do better with a childminder, have you thought about that instead?

Its probably not the childcare itself, solely. It could be a mixture of getting to the change, growing, hitting a bit of a new phase developmentally, being tired etc.

We found an incredibly brilliant childminder instead of after school club. Her house was like a home and my dc could chill there.

Our childminder picked up from primary.

More tired doesn't = more sleep. In fact it often seems to equal less, as though the adrenaline of being over tired makes him wake up at 5am rather than 5.45, and then he gets even more strung out.

This is my kid too and early nights are the only answer. If you can't do it on school nights due to the time you are getting in from work, make sure DC gets an early night on the weekend.

It's very early days if you've only been working full time a month! Give things time to settle down.

I do think working while the kids are primary age comes with its particular challenges... they're still getting used to the stimulating and busy school day and then a different environment of the after school club. A childminder would offer a more home style environment if that suits better.

For me, as id always worked from when the kids were babies, the school part seemed easier (and cheaper!) but I do take your point

He goes to bed at 7.30. He can't last any longer!

It's nearly the end of term, everyone is exhausted. 7yo dd2 has managed 2 tantrums tonight and she was at after school club until 5pm. She had a nap on Saturday afternoon, I thought she was ill!

We do very little at the weekends, at least one day the kids stay in pyjamas until lunchtime watching hours of TV.

If you can move your hours around so that you have one day you can pick up from school but another day he has to stay at wraparound until 6pm that might work better? But he will get used to it 😊

I did work for a year when he was one. He was in a private nursery for 8 hours, three days a week. He seemed fine but it cost a bomb and in the end wasn't worth it.

I hadn't thought about a childminder. After school club is at school, with his friends, and they can play outside or do drawing, watch a film and sometimes play minecraft. Its pretty chilled. I'll give the child minder thing a think though, never even occurred to me. Thanks.

I don't know if I misunderstood the voting but no idea who would say you're unreasonable!
I have no advice but if it helps my nearly 6 year old is EXACTLY the same. Spent most of the afternoon in his room due to behaviour today, I was in tears of misery as I feel like I don't even enjoy his company at the moment. I am a SAHM (two little sisters) and he is only in school until 1.30 or 2.30 and last day tomorrow! So I think it's just the time of year and probably some kind of pandemic hang over for that particular age group.
Your post made me feel less alone in so hopefully mine makes you feel a little better too.
Don't let the mama guilt get you down. It's not your jobs fault!

How recent are the changes in behaviour? Mine used to become like this around the last half term off school because they were just tired and done with school everyday and needed the holiday break. What are your plans for the holidays in terms of childcare?

Hi @BeatieBourke You're definitely not a shit mum. You’re a hard working, caring, inspiring mum trying to do your best by your child emotionally & financially & better your career prospects. I have been in your shoes & basically I think this is a reaction to change, possibly combined with other factors eg growth spurt, and will pass quite quickly. Few ideas in the meantime:

1. Agree look into childminder, quieter after school club, nanny share, swapping days with a friend, you or DH finish early one day etc - somewhere more relaxing for him to be after school at least some days
2. Get him to bed as early as possible including at the weekend - to make this work and as he’s an early riser do eg school reading book in the morning instead of at bed. Cook something simple or batch cook or you & DH cook & eat later & reheat that the next day for an early dinner for DS
3. Chill out & spend time together at the weekend - no need for lots of activities / parties, do stories / films / gentle play, so he knows there is plenty of time for him in the new set up & to help him wind down & sleep better
4. Be kind to yourself. You’re doing great 💐

My DH and I work full time with one 8yo, no family help. We've made several adaptations to our work patterns to help with school runs and holidays.

Both of us work 4 days per week (compresses hours), so Mon and Fri we can do pick up/drop off. Also helps greatly during the holidays as we only have 3 days per week to cover.

I work early and DH works late. This means he can drop off at normal school time and DS goes into after school the other 3 days. I aim to pick him up at 5pm rather than leave him there until 6pm when it closes.

In the holidays we tend to take a week together as a family but other days separately to minimise time in holiday clubs.

I don't think you can under estimate how much chilling time they need around school. We're careful how much we do on weekends too.

It may be easier said than done but I'd personally look at what you can do to reduce wrap around usage if at all possible.

What are your weekends like? Is he allowed down time then to potter/play/be free or are you taking him to activities/clubs?

CharlesIsQueensHorcrux, that is such a kind and imminently sensible response. Thank you.

On Fridays DH finishes early and collects him at the usual time. MIL has offered endlessly to collect one day a week and bring home but it never materialises.

I might be able to sort hours but we're both quite new in our jobs.

I'm not trying to "have it all", but we do have to pay the bills!

Can you talk to your mil? Does your son like her?
Perhaps it might be an idea to try and get that to happen.

You are doing a great job.
A couple of things you could consider.
Lots of children are angsty right now. It's hot, near the end of term, they are tired, and hyper about the holidays, and some of the routine at school has changed. You might be able to just ride it out for the next few weeks?

Food. Hangry is a real thing! Can you give him an extra snack at the worst point of the day?

Can you move anything from the evenings to the early mornings? School reading books? Bath?? A bit younger than your DS, but we often went to the park when it opened at 7, before dropping off at 7.30

I was going to suggest a childminder too. That's what we did. It was a quieter, more homely environment. Not really any more tiring than going home. We were lucky enough to rarely need breakfast club though. Mostly one of us could drop off.

I feel the same Alittlelost0. I’m pleased that I have opened this thread. My 6&7 year old have been bonkers these past couple of weeks.
Apologies I can’t give advice op, I’m in the midst of it all too. I do like these suggestions about a chill day though. I tend to want to fill weekends up with exciting (well, as exciting as it gets) things so I guess I’m burning the bridges at both ends.

DH always want to take us on long bloody walks up bloody mountains at the weekend. Poor kid.

I've also just discovered that DH, whilst totally failing to organise MIL to do after school pick up.one day a week as promised (I've tried to hand some life admin back to him since going ft), he has managed to organise her to pick DS up on Friday so he can go CAMPING with his mates! Which will be the second weekend on the trot he's off doing things, which I've also just discovered.

Maybe I have DH problem not a childcare problem? 🧐 At least that's two weekends we won't be dragged on afore-mentioned walks!

He’s tired. He’s had a lot asked of him all day, by seemingly everyone. Parents, teachers, lunchtime staff, after school staff, childminders, clubs. His day starts with someone telling him to brush his teeth, wash his face, get his school bag, get his clothes on, brush his hair, finish his breakfast, get his shoes on, get his hat, get his suncream, get his school bag, get his school books, hurry up, put your coat on the peg, change your shoes, sit on the mat, cross your legs, get your book, sit here, do this activity, not like that like this, don’t chat, don’t fidget, draw this. Go outside, run around, don’t climb that, don’t speak to friend that way, eat your lunch, clean your plate, go here. Sit still, listen to the teacher, do this activity, do it like this, we are going to learn about X so use your listening ears, go here, get your coat. Change your shoes, wash your hands, find your things. Go with X person, go to X place, line up here, go in single file, here are a group of people your age you should be friends with, here is a box of games with rules, here is a social group with dos and donuts you don’t always understand, here’s your mum, you should be glad to see her, stop your game, come and get your coat, let’s get home. Here’s your tea, that’s just what there is, wash your hands, sit at the table, no there isn’t anything else, just eat a few more mouthfuls, no no pudding, some and give me a hug, let’s do your reading, now let’s have some fun, now let’s stop the fun because of the time on the clock. Time for a bath.Go get your pyjamas on. Brush your teeth. Read a story. Now it’s night time. Bed time. Because I said so. Goodnight.

im not saying all of those happens every day or that any of it is bad in isolation, it’s just my reading of the general life of a young primary child that is bewildered, small and unable to control everything he would like.

I'd also stop withholding a story as the punishment. That time is as much about child and parent reconnecting at the end of the day. If he's missing his time with you that's going to make him feel worse. Pick something else (ie screen time!)

Bet money he's hangry though.

@HorribleHerstory I completely agree. This isn't a dig at OP or any parent but I think parents often forget what it was like to be a child and to crave some control in their lives.

Giving options works for my children "would you like to get into your jammies or brush your teeth first?" "Would you like x or y for tea?" When I have ingredients for both options.

OP what are yours and your partners hours like? DP and I both work 48hrs per week but on a 4 on, 4 off shift pattern (12hr shifts). It means everything is split 50/50 and the children always have one of us there. Our jobs aren't well paid so e couldn't afford childcare. They're also very stressful and (mine in particular) very physically and mentally exhausting!

Jeeeez, thanks for pointing all thoughts out Horrible, it hadn't occurred to me. Hence all my comments about guilt and feeling sorry for him.

We don't withhold story as a punishment, but the fact is that if he spends half an hour prolonging bedtime as much as possible, he either has fewer stories or goes to bed later 🤷‍♀️