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Original poster

Private Schools being able to hold charitable status

565 replies

IdiotCreatures · 27/06/2022 09:14

I went and looked at a building associated with a local independent school yesterday, as it's always piqued my curiosity.
The school is run by the Woodard Corporation. I looked at their books on company house yesterday.
The amount of money moving through them is ridiculous. If people want to pay for a private education, then surely the institutions should be taxed.
Apart from a small number of scholarships, the average person is not benefiting from these institutions.
In the case of Eton, as pointed out on another thread, these schools are probably leading to damage to society and definitely do not promote the idea of equality.

OP posts:
SnackSizeRaisin · 27/06/2022 19:43

Car driving is much more heavily subsidised than public transport....roads are an enormous cost and are paid for out of general taxation. 50 million for one new junction type of cost.

Agree with the rest of your points though

greywinds · 27/06/2022 19:45

Why would you edge out schools that are succeeding in order to funnel kids back into schools that have failed to meet their needs? That's pretty selfish.

You wouldn't which one of the many reasons govts wont do this.

justasking111 · 27/06/2022 19:45

namechangeduetoimpatience · 27/06/2022 09:46

You do realise that the parents also pay tax just like everyone but do not take up the school places in the state sector right?

This, more money for the rest of us

ThinkAboutItTomorrow · 27/06/2022 19:45

@LuaDipa but a 20% tax paid by the remaining 90% at private school would bring in £1.5bn.

The billion or so extra to the treasury would certainly help.
You could almost restore the pupil premium to where it was in 2014 before all the real term cuts came in.

LuaDipa · 27/06/2022 20:00

That’s assuming the tax raised was funnelled back into schools in it’s entirety.

I’m no politician but I’m pretty sure that wouldn’t be the case. All those extra kids will still need funding though.

ChiselandBits · 27/06/2022 20:09

@SnackSizeRaisin "state schools would improve" How? A pp has just explained exactly how she would respond if forced to send her kid to the local state school. She would buy a house closest to the best one, pay for tutoring and her child and others like them will bulge out the top sets. Parental "power" in schools is minimal. All you'd get is selection by postcode, as is already the case, only even more so, and the most well off, or those on the edges, paying for tutoring.

WinterDeWinter · 27/06/2022 20:16

It's true it is hard to force change when people are such relentless cunts.

Pottedpalm · 27/06/2022 20:25

WinterDeWinter · 27/06/2022 19:37

It's remarkable how touchy private school parents are about the fact that others might think they're .. selfish people.

And hilarious that someone has used the word 'diversity' in the context of their choice to buy their kids an unfair advantage.

Of course having the school that suits the child is important. It couldn't be more important. But it's important for every child, not just the middle class ones. The funnelling off of some children has a profound impact on the country as a whole - and not just because the sharp-elbowed remove their attention from the state education system, which would improve with their democratic pressure: here is barely a single aspect of our society which the funnelling off doesn't infect. It props up inequality. It maintains inequality. It is, in fact, inequality. That's what you're buying - inequality.

This is not an act without consquence for others - like choosing Heinz baked beans instead of Sainsburys, because you can afford it and why shouldn't you - and you're all despicably disingenuous in pretending it is. The existence of private education damages all the children left behind, and the adults they go on to become. It damages us all. Except for you, private school parent, and your lovely offspring who were lucky enough to have parents who could afford the fees - - through your own bloody hard work, no doubt, and nothing to do with the class privilege you inherited.

Too right through our own hard work, no inherited wealth or privilege here.

WinterDeWinter · 27/06/2022 20:44

TBH inherited was a bit crass/ dogwhistle. Private education is wrong even if you come from a working class background. Lots of people can make the most of an opportunity, but you have to have the opportunity in the first place - chance, inheritance, background, right place right time, all of these things can generate opportunity (although privilege is the most common). But none of these things are morally justifiable reasons to entrench inequality by buying your children an undeserved (by them, although I'm sure they're lovely) leg up because you had an opportunity.

MinglingFlamingo · 27/06/2022 20:56

My old school was a Woodard School
At one point. It's a massive company. From what I understand even before it was a Woodard school it was a registered charity. Think it's something to do with giving extra protection if the school gets into financial difficulty

TullyApplebottom · 27/06/2022 21:03

WinterDeWinter · 27/06/2022 20:16

It's true it is hard to force change when people are such relentless cunts.

“Relentless cunts”
you got a mirror handy?

Jedsnewstar · 27/06/2022 21:05

namechangeduetoimpatience · 27/06/2022 09:46

You do realise that the parents also pay tax just like everyone but do not take up the school places in the state sector right?

Weak argument. Most people use a small percentage of the things tax pays for. Some more some much less. People with no children also pay tax.

edwinbear · 27/06/2022 21:06

Are we saying tax private school fees only? Or education in general? So if we can put VAT on school fees, are we going to add VAT to, for example, state school trips as well? So outdoor pursuits now has 20% VAT added to the cost?

justasking111 · 27/06/2022 21:11

Charities cannot claim back VAT that's 20%

DomPerignon12 · 27/06/2022 21:36

SnackSizeRaisin · 27/06/2022 19:36

If there were no private schools, politicians and their wealthy donors would have to send their children to state schools. Therefore state schools would improve.

Rich people hold all the power in this country. Private schools perpetuate that.

If private schools don't buy an unfair advantage why does anyone use them?

Show quote history

Wrong. They’d just send them abroad - or home educate them in small groups.
You can never force every child to be sent to school. The rich will always find a way to maintain ‘elitism’.

PixellatedPixie · 27/06/2022 21:46

Why not rather go after huge corporations that don’t pay their taxes the taxes they are owed. Being angry about independent schools is often the politics of envy! My local state school has some parents dropping kids off in Ferraris and life in massive houses but the local independent has some parents who live in small flats with ancient cars.

FelicityFlops · 27/06/2022 22:00

Most private schools were originally charitable foundations to help and educate "the poor".
These days the state educates "the poor".
My aunts and my mother all went to a Woodard Corporation school, my sister and I went to a school founded in 1558 as a charity for "Blue Maids".
I do not really get the point that you are making as the current state system was only instigated after the 1944 Education Act.
As with anything state it is oversubscribed ditto the 1947 National Health Service.
Many fee-paying schools have scholarships and bursaries available to anyone. My school had a far greater social mix than the school I did my teaching practice in, which was 95% or higher C2s.
Why do you not like the idea of people spending their money on something they value, such as education?

BanjoVio · 27/06/2022 22:04

Private schools with charity status give out scholarships to allow local students from less affluent backgrounds to attend for free. The schools I’ve worked at had several students who didn’t pay fees (because they couldn’t), but they still passed the entrance exam.

ChiselandBits · 27/06/2022 22:07

@WinterDeWinter you know what, I'd love you to come and spend a couple of days at my school. Meet the kids, the staff, the parents. And then call us all cunts. Cos I bet all the money you think we have that we don't that it and we would be absolutely nothing like what you think we are.

Skidaramink · 27/06/2022 22:39

My children go to a private school and I voted YANBU.

Frankly, I wish there were no such thing as private schools. If there weren't, I strongly believe state schools would be better (more middle-class, professional, "pushy" parents).

I can't see private schools actually being banned any time soon but making them so expensive that hardly anyone can afford them would be the next best thing.

Namenic · 27/06/2022 22:55

I can see the logic in removing charitable status. I don’t think it will do much good - because not all teachers in private schools would transfer to state sector (where there is already a lack of teachers), there would be a large extra cohort for the state sector to cope with in 1 go. Richer parents would buy houses near top state schools and send their kids to tutoring. Overseas pupils studying in U.K. would reduce, reducing income for the country.

TullyApplebottom · 27/06/2022 22:58

Presumably the schools would all just become CICs - no increase in tax paid as they don’t have to make a return for shareholders and would just invest profits in the school. Plus they’d escape regulation as charities and not be subject to public benefit test, so under less pressure to offer bursaries, provide assistance to state sector etc.
cant see how that helps anyone, really

mathsquestions · 27/06/2022 23:02

Their kids will be working to pay your pension and fund the NHS in your later years.

Blinkingbatshit · 27/06/2022 23:10

In France if you choose to go private the state still pay what they would in the event your child went to state school and then you just top up the difference……just imagining your reaction if that were to be suggested in the uk!😂

DdraigGoch · 27/06/2022 23:40

ThinkAboutItTomorrow · 27/06/2022 14:29

15% of the average is £2k (based on ISC numbers)

I don't understand why people think of it as 'paying twice'. The proportion of taxes that go towards education come regardless of whether you have a kid in education. Education is a benefit to society, an educated workforce is a driver of our economy. It is in all our interests to ensure public education is well funded. It's sad that some see it as inadequate for their children but paying for private education, like private healthcare is a luxury that should be taxed as such.

Taxes subsidise public transport but car owners don't expect cars to be tax free because they already paid for public transport.

If education is a benefit to society, then it shouldn't be taxed.

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