To ask you not to tolerate the term "pregnant people"

[flashbac]

It might seem harmless and kind but it is not harmless. I'm seeing the term alot at the moment due to the horrid state of affairs across the pond.

Pregnancy, abortion, menstruation, menopause. These are issues that affect women and reasons why men have sought to control us, to control our bodies. We are seen as vessels, chattels, playthings, property, servants, and then, when we can no longer get pregnant, as useless rubbish. All due to our biological function. If you tolerate language change so these things are seen as 'people' rights issues that affect both 'men' and women we lose the truthful and valid argument that bad and oppressive practices, laws, policy decisions etc, e.g. banning of abortion, are rooted in misogyny, which of course they are.

Abortion bans are because of misogyny. Especially in countries where there is no free maternal care, no statutory maternity leave or pay, no shits given about the children once they are born. This is a women's rights issue, a sex based one. And we, as a sex class, must never take any rights we have for granted.

I think you should spend some time talking to trans people as you have a very superficial understanding of their experience.

The trans people I know agree with me. They say it themselves 🤷🏼‍♀️

100% I've complained to Tommy's (charity) for using it before. Can't stand it. Let's wipe out women shall we?

Agree with all the points you made too.

I am a woman and I have a problem with this language. Only women/girls/females can have periods, have wombs and cervix’s, become pregnant, give birth and naturally breastfeed. All this ambiguous BS is for men to exert further control of women.
So to be clear for those on here still confused - Trans Men are biological women, dress it up how you want but XX and XY are undeniable facts. I will not have my identity erased to pacify a minuscule minority.

By having a baby you acknowledge your sex

By trying to avoid that you force others to accept gender - telling women that women means gender means we must choose - accept gender if you accept the term woman

Gender that many reject , not by identifying as the opposite sex but by saying gender is pointless and should be applied to no one

if I am no longer a women - which I can't be if I don't accept the gender only the sex - what prison do you put me in? Must I participate in male races ? Use the mens open plan changing rooms - after all your explanations mean I can't use womens as I am not a woman

you seem to be reimagining gender as part of an epistemological process of knowledge production when it has never been understood that way

Ha if only that were true! I’d be a very famous social scientist. Sadly I can’t claim these ideas are original to me.

If a person born female chooses to live as a man, surely that means taking steps to not get pregnant

Freddy McConnell signed a statutory declaration saying Freddy would “live as a man” then was pregnant a few weeks later. The aim in my view was to make the already undefinable “live as a man” to include female things.

The knock on effect of this, of course, is that “living as a woman” can mean male things. Like raping women in women’s prisons, for example.

The entire process of obtaining a Gender Recognition Certificate is a sham, in my view, no more exemplified by Freddy’s actions.

You're literally arguing that trans women are not women and trans men are not men here.

This all detracts from the theme of the thread, which is that women are unable to define themselves in the fight for rights because a group of men get upset when the word woman is used to describe “not them”. They hate it. Fight tooth and nail to make sure woman is never rooted in its definition of a sex. Whenever you see “pregnant people” remember it’s the males who are being kept happy for that.

Well said@

I’m not though

Ever understood chestfeeding as men have breast tissue too. Just complete virtue signalling wankery.

Exactly. The only logical conclusion that works in Tandora’s favour is that people can have understanding of bodily differences but come to the conclusion those differences equal the same category. Male body in a transwoman and female body in a woman are different, therefore they’re same.

Batshit.

”Gender” is the knowledge and understanding that gives meaning to bodily differences.

Gender is the socially constructed expectations based on sex, bodily difference is sex, which cannot be changed. The socially constructed nature of gender means that people can present in a way consistent with the social expectations attached to one sex or another.

That doesn’t mean they becomes that sex because at a most fundamental biological level nothing has changed.

You said gender gives meaning to bodily differences

Ie male sex and female sex are different and you are adding meaning on top of that fundamental difference

Meaning transwomen can't be females
And only females give birth

Would you prefer pregnant females ? Would that make you happy that we were being inclusive?

It matters because of the sex based discrimination experienced by women the world over. If we can’t define what a woman is (adult, human, female), it becomes impossible to avail ourselves of protection in law, to identity inequality and to defend sex based rights. It’s almost like the men planned it that way.

@Tandora You’re simultaneously arguing that any knowledge of biological sex is socially constructed, but also relying on the idea that trans people can have an unmediated knowledge of being the opposite sex.

If all knowledge of biological sex is fundamentally socially inflected, then all trans people can “know” is social scripts and roles, not sex itself. So they can’t in fact know that they are the opposite sex at all, as per your definition — can they?

So, how about profoundly disabled people. An adult human female who is non verbal, with limited understanding of the world. We cant know what level her knowledge is at, so is she not a woman? Does being a person also depend on knowledge. Is she even a person?

This whole ideology is so disablist it is off the charts.

It's alright - men will tell us she's a women

Why does 99.99% of the population have to forgo the definition of woman in the context of abortion rights? If it’s just about the transmen and non-binary people, can’t all 37 of them who have had a baby just this once forgo clinging to the word pregnant people if it means better ability to argue pro-choice? Can’t they suspend their strongly held beliefs? Are they really that selfish?

The answer is probably, but some might be good enough to see the bigger picture. But it won’t matter because the men who get hurry feelz when woman describes “not them” will never allow it.

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but I'd think that transmen are very unlikely to fall pregnant accidentally and therefore are very unlikely to need an abortion. Correct me if I'm wrong, but usually transmen need to deliberately come off testosterone in order to get pregnant so their chances of suffering from an unwanted surprise pregnancy is very slim. This abortion issue is a Women's Right issue.

There is no obligation to take testosterone to identify as male or none binary

Well that settles it.

So if you're not taking testosterone and you're getting pregnant and having a baby, in what possible sense are you not a woman?

YANBU for the many and varied explanations already on here.

You cant identify as something you cabt define. And you also cant NOT identify as something when there's no definition to define yourself as against.

I would love to know what adult human females with no gender identity who don't consent to being re defined against someone else's ideology they don't believe in , are allowed to call themselves.

Of men and women aren't sex classes and there's no definition of either then what even is transition?