I work with a woman…

[Joyfultoes]

Who is classically beautiful - tall, slim looks great in everything. And she’s really nice too, very friendly. And she’s doing really well in her job. In fact she’s ten years younger than me and has just been promoted above me, now earns a lot more. The thing is I’ve worked directly with her - and whilst she’s decent enough at her job, she’s definitely not amazing. There are far better people. Yet everyone raves about her. AIBU to say that being attractive gets you places being ordinary looking doesn’t.

This is a very good point. I once got promoted to a mini team leader role from my team because I was head and shoulders the best at the job we all did. Seemed sound logic at the time until we all realised that running the team had nothing to do with being good at the job. It took a while to get used to doing less hands on work and more departmental running. My ex used to work for the NHS and said this kind of promotion was common and a minor reason the NHS could be better.

AIBU to say that being attractive gets you places being ordinary looking doesn’t.

It can do yes, obviously.

But not all successful people are attractive, so maybe in this case it's coincidental.

You sound horribly dismissive of her actually.

It's proven - or as proven as subjective things can be - with studies. Fat people don't do as well. Short men don't do as well. Attractiveness is much more helpful to women's careers than men's.

In these days of teams calls and wfh or hybrid, I would assume a woman's perceived attractiveness would be less on peoples minds? Naivety I guess.

It's worth pointing out that the bosses will have a bigger picture view of someone's performance and it's entirely possible to not know about a colleague's achievements.

I’m sure it does sometimes, but as you said she’s also good at her job and genuinely lovely, so she’s personable. I doubt she’s being promoted 10 years ahead of you based on looks alone. Did they say why you didn’t get the promotion this time? Or over the last 10 years?

There have actually been studies that show that attractive people are more successful. It’s not your imagination.

Op, who are you to decide that she's not amazing when you are much older, probably more experienced and yet you were not recognized by your employer to be promoted . You sound really bitter. You have actually described some really good qualities about her and she's probably been ear marked as a good candidate with great potential that they would like to retain her for. Again, who are you to say that she isn't amazing ?

“AIBU to say that less attractive people are often jealous and not as good at their job?”

I think being friendly/having people skills can get you to lots of places where ability to do the job alone won't.

I agree.

You said she’s really nice and this is probably why people rave about her so much.
As PP said those people skills are often worth more than other aspects of the job.

Of course you only have to look at many actors/actresses/singers to see that they wouldn’t have gotten as far as they have without their looks.

Yes but the other side is pretty, bubbly girls feeling threatened for being good-looking. I actually know someone who was a Care Activities Coordinator with no experience of the care industry so in a role you would think one of the next step up only from carer, but, they really suffered because of their looks to the point they left their job with nothing planned and remain unemployed some 9 months on.

Then there is women working in male-dominated industries as it is who will never be up there with the men's ability regardless.

l would imagine she has probably had to pay a well hidden price for the way she looks, attractiveness comes at a cost, especially when surrounded by people like yourself.

Unless you're someone's line manager I don't think its possible to be fully aware of their abilities, or perhaps more accurately, the relative value of the person's skill set to the company. Whenever we promote someone there's a little disgruntled flurry from people who can't see why that person was chosen.
We invariably have our reasons, all based on the needs of the business. Which would not be best met by choosing less able candidates because they looked nice.

Senior management is full of people who weren’t the best at their jobs, just the most personable and able to run a team. Just being very good at your job often isn’t the most important thing needed to get ahead.

Sounds a bit like the green eyed monster syndrome. She could be unattractive and still do a good job and be friendly

did I say she couldn’t? Bizarre statement

She sounds like a genuinely nice person, and someone with potential so maybe her manager has recognized that. If you were better than her, why didn't you apply for the promotion

it wasn’t a me or her, she went to a different part of the company and I’m not particularly jealous at all. I’m average looking and happy. Just found it interesting.

I wish women would fucking support each other at work instead of dragging them down by saying it's just looks

I in no way said that. She’s good at her job. But she’s been promoted way earlier than most people are and I found that interesting.

It’s also nothing to do with middle aged men in this instance. Most of the senior team are female. I’m not suggesting in any way she’s been promoted because people are trying to have sex with her!!!

Love the mix of people calling me old bitter and jealous apropos of nothing then the people citing studies that have a shown attractive people get further…..

We both have very senior jobs in a good career. I’ve not been ‘not promoted for 10 yes’. Stop focusing on the situation (which you know nothing about) and instead focus on the general gist of the question I am mulling/ asking

what you’ve just wrote is depressingly true.

but the context of your post, almost as though the OP should take solace in it, is incredibly sad.

I’m with you OP.

some of the replies you’ve received on this thread are disgraceful.

Someone at my work a few years ago was really beautiful, like front cover of a magazine beautiful. She had a reputation for being good at the job but not outstanding. I didn't work with her directly. But I did work with a guy who went on and on about her, how she was no better at her job than him, it was just because she was pretty, how people didn't expect her to work as hard because she was pretty. He was more or less obsessed with her. So yes I'm sure being beautiful does have its advantages but you'd also encounter plenty of people like this guy, which I wouldn't wish on anyone.

As an aside, I'm not attractive at all and I did worry when I was starting out that it would hold me back in my career, but surprisingly I've never felt it has. Even in client facing roles I've no complaints about how fast I've been promoted.

she’s ten years younger than me and has just been promoted above me, now earns a lot more. The thing is I’ve worked directly with her - and whilst she’s decent enough at her job, she’s definitely not amazing.

Thats not putting her down is it?

OP: so here’s the situation, AIBU?
others: yeah a bit
OP: no I’m not, stop focusing on the situation and focus on the vague pointless gist of my question.

yeah that’s not really how it works OP. If your happy and successful by focus on this woman and her looks? If you didn’t go for the promotion how do you no you wouldn’t have gotten it because she’s better looking? Were all the other people who applied less attractive but better at their jobs than her?

I think there is research that suggests attractive people are advantaged by their looks on their careers, although of course that doesn’t mean all attractive people got their jobs for that reason. And to be fair I also know people who are shit at their jobs and are pig-ugly.

@BattenburgDonkey its alright you know, you don’t have to be so vitriolic to strangers online just because you can.

I’ll spell it out for you, I am not asking for thoughts on a specific situation. I described it to illustrate a point which I was interested in exploring with people - About whether being attractive furthers you in the workplace.

this specific woman and her specific job has very little to do with the bigger conversation…. If you think it’s vague and pointless probably best to read and leave rather than post and look stupid

YABU to believe that job success and progression depends only on how well you can do the job.

Teams and groups working together need a combination of three main things - skills for the job, hard workers and people who are easy to get on with. Everyone needs 2 out of that 3 to be successful but depending on the team any 2 can work.

So if you are brilliant at the job and a hard worker, managers can overlook you being a bit of an arse and not getting with others because they can staff the rest of their team with different combinations

hardworkers who get on with everyone

great skills and get on with everyone (but not the hardest worker)

Successful teams run by good managers make the most of a combination of strengths, while managing individual weaknesses.

It’s possible your colleague is great at getting on with others (maybe because she’s attractive and gets a positive response from people) - that makes her a team asset and an easy hire to manage PLUS she’s either a hard worker when it counts or she’s really good at a specific thing when it matters.

Im happy with my responses thanks, I’m entitled to my opinion, you asked strangers for it and got it. You can’t really dictate which part of the post people respond to. Maybe AIBU isn’t the best place for your debate if you are sensitive about the responses.

Maybe she simply ticked the most boxes at interview?
Unless you were involved in the interview process you wouldn’t know this.

i don’t work in an industry where there is an interview and tick boxes…..

@BattenburgDonkey clearly not. Next time I’ll tailor my posts for the hard of thought!!