To agree with the Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v Wade?

[thereareotherways]

Obviously I can predict the voting already! Ha.

TL;DR (at the top!): I support abortion but think Roe v Wade (and later cases) are not legally sound, and there are better ways to secure women's rights that would have more public support.

I'm personally not opposed to abortion in most real-life circumstances. I think after viability I would prefer other options to be explored, but I think most women having later-term abortions are doing it for serious medical reasons and I don't think that should be prosecuted. That said, I also am okay in principle with regulating abortion and I'm not an absolutist re: women's control: I think the fetus/baby does have some rights (which I weight proportionally more as the baby grows).

As I understand it, Roe v Wade and Casey rely on a right to "liberty" in the US constitution (primarily the 14th amendment), which otherwise doesn't mention abortion. I'm not a lawyer at all, I find this tenuous at best. Liberty has always had implied limits based on what's acceptable in society, and abortion was illegal until fairly recently. I don't think there's any justification for claiming that there's an implied consent of the people that abortion is morally acceptable - and the polarisation of the US on this issue reflects that.

I think the decision in Roe/Casey to impose abortion via activist judges was a poor decision both legally and politically. This is a clear case where elected representatives need to pass legislation that reflects their constituents' positions. If that legislation differs from state-to-state, well, that's the whole point of a federal system. Pro-choice candidates need to get elected in red states and then they will have the actual consent of the people, not tenuous implied consent.

The decision in Dobbs is here and good reading: www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/19-1392_6j37.pdf

I also have a faint hope that now that this has been overturned, both Republicans and Democrats might now return their focus to legislation instead of Supreme Court nominees. The power of the Supreme Court is too dominating in US politics: we should be pleased to see them ceding some power back to the legislature, i.e., the people's representatives!

It's a disgusting decision and all women should be shouting from the fucking roof tops about it. YABU.

TFMR at 37w is done the same way as induced labour. It's generally called a compassionate induction. Feticide is offered, but not always taken up on by the parents. Mainly there is just a palliative care plan put in place for baby at birth, if they survive birth.

Yes pity Clinton or Obama didn't attempt to codify it in law - I guess never predicted RvW would fall.

I don't like the idea of abortion, I would go as far as to saying I'm strongly against it in all but the most extreme of circumstances (risk to mothers life / rape / incest) which puts me in the category of people that alot of MNers don't like.

That being said I didn't feel the triumph I expected I would when I heard the news today. The enormity of it makes for sobering thought. It's bad. Very bad.

My strong feelings about abortion should have no baring on a woman's right to choose.

This is wrong.

When I saw this news I cried. Men really hate women especially the ones that believe in women's rights. Clarence Thomas would take contraception away from women if he could.

They've a John Wayne complex

Just adding my support here to those who A- suspect the OP of goadery, b - suspect they don’t understand the actual ruling and its implications in the actual US legal system and c - want to say to fuck you to OP for such a piece of nonsense I can’t even.

It's not about your opinion on abortion, or the majority opinion. All that matters is the opinion of the woman deciding what happens with HER body and her future. Pro choice arguments are just that - allowing women to choose.

I lost a long response to you that I had written out. So this will be much shorter. There are 2 questions that are on the table

1. should abortions be legal


2. was Roe v.Wade Constitutional

IMHO.. The answer to #1 is yes and #2 is no.

Until people stop conflating the two it’s going to be a mess. In my state there is a law prohibiting abortion.. I’ll paraphrase a quote by the state majority leader.

-this law has been on the books for 200 years, the legislature has had a majority 14 times during this period, you had plenty of opportunity to change the law. -

This! Even if you believed a foetus or unborn baby do have rights why should they ever EVER trump the rights of the woman carrying them?

You couldn't pin a man down and take out a kidney or a lung to save someone waiting for a transplant; however much that person has a right to life. I don't see how removing a woman's right to not carry a pregnancy to term is any different to that.

So many foetuses will be allowed to be born to a parent who strongly doesn't want them. That's a recipe for utter disaster and social chaos.

OP, listen to accounts of women who had backstreet abortions, their pain, the fear and not being able to seek help afterwards in case they were arrested. There are hundreds of reasons to leave the status quo as it is and let those needing or wanting a termination, to get one.

I feel so embarrassed for you OP. Your ignorance and lack of education is astonishing.

Hmmm... so your view is as the pregnancy progresses the rights of the foetus increases, is that right?

I'd love to see some verified statistics on current early v late term abortion rates. I'm going to guess most abortions are presently carried out safely in the earlier weeks. This ruling is going to see a massive swing to late term abortions (poor foetus), botched abortions (poor foetus), dead mothers, mental health issues etc

If someone what's an abortion they are going to find a way to have an abortion, this ruling will not change and as a mother myself my heart breaks for the torture both mother and foetus/baby will be subjected too

I’m confused by this. I think OP was talking about a 12 yr old actually bringing about the death of a 37 week gestation baby. Because that’s what abortion at 37 weeks would actually mean. And which is obviously illegal here in England if it’s not for medical reasons. Which, IMO, is why it was such a silly thing for OP to raise.

Its also hypothetical to the point of madness to talk about rape victims leaving it to 37 weeks to decide they want a termination. It’s like using an extremely rare, desperate situation as a sort of cheap argumentative point.

Your argument falls down quickly because all polls suggest a majority of Americans support access to abortion.

A majority also support gun control and it was just decided that states cannot be left to rule individually on that, even in New York where they are overwhelmingly in favour of it.

Don't pretend this is some noble attempt to create robust legal processes. They are already talking about coming for other rulings on lgbt marriage and contraception. Isn't it convenient that all of these shoddy flimsy rulings are about the things that right wing religious nuts hate?

90% of abortions in USA are carried out within the first twelve weeks I read tonight

I lost a long response to you that I had written out. So this will be much shorter. There are 2 questions that are on the table

should abortions be legal

was Roe v.Wade Constitutional

IMHO.. The answer to #1 is yes and #2 is no.

I personally agree with this, for what it's worth.

Literally the only "caveat" I have is that I'm okay with regulating late-term, non-medical-reasons abortions... which I imagine is a) an extreme edge case, and b) probably not out of line with most people.

According to MN this means I hate women, want to encourage coathanger abortions at 12 weeks, also want to ban contraception (wtf?) and love guns?

a fundamental right in the us constitution is the right to liberty. Basic body autonomy is required for any sort of freedom in my opinion. So I think this latest case is wrongly decided.

Nothing is more important in this context than the woman's right to choose and have autonomy over her body.

And that includes some perceived right of the foetus.

You might not hate women, OP, but you certainly feel you have more right to say what another woman does with her body than she does.

Funny how you can buy guns at walmart but women's bodies and reproductive rights MUST be policed and controlled.

What century am I in? I could've sworn it was 2022 yesterday.

I think what many pro-lifers don't understand is that for some women an abortion is life saving.

It gave me back my life when I felt it was being squeezed out of me by being in the worst situation I could imagine. There are so, so many complex reasons why this could be the case for a multitude of women.

I feel thankful every day that I had access to a safe, legal abortion. If I hadn't I would have done literally anything not to continue my pregnancy, and sadly sometimes that's how women lose their lives.

Today is a horrific day for women everywhere.

Are you for real? It will force desperate women into backstreet abortions. Putting her life at risk possibly leaving children behind she already has.

They need to be focusing on gun control. To prevent the slaughter of children already here. Not trying to play God to children not even conceived yet.

YANBU OP but your nuanced view is lost on the majority of MN alas.

What is worrying is that this decision will find it's way to Britain, I feel for any woman who chooses to have a termination but believe it is a woman's right to choose, nobody else's, not the government, the court's or the church. This is a step backwards & will deny women the chance to have a safe termination with the right medical support & bring back illegal abortions, women will end up dying because of this decision.