To be conflicted by the crackdown on 2nd homes

[chairz]

I complete understand the problems they cause & do agree with a higher levy but thenI have used holiday cottages lots of times in the past & plan to in the future.

It's actually hilarious that you appear to be trying to argue that it's tourist income which sustains my local garage and vets etc. 😂😂

Can someone link me to the new policy?

Firstly stop putting words in my mouth that are not there

I didnt say we planned (in italics) to use a vet, but if you have pets its likely that you may need a vet on holiday, our dog went everywhere with us, we never holidayed without him and holiday a lot so as par the course for many pet owners at some point you will need a vet

I also didnt mention car parts or ordering parts, tyres, brakes, air con all basic things that often sit there without being done because we dont have time, they can be done at any garage, this is not specialist work.

I also didnt say that my spending in an area for the week we are there is akin to a 'locals' spending for the week that they live in their home.

You took it upon yourself to list a whole host of services that you proclaimed holiday makers dont use, I viewed the list and thought, 'thats interesting, we use most of those while we are away and so do people we know'. Rather than think to yourself that you should think a bit more carefully about what you're assuming, you choose to be defensive to try to make your point and put words into peoples mouths. Thats on you

I really would seek medical attention, you have a real problem imagining people are saying things they are not.

Ok, so holidaymakers hardly use those things. Happy with that?

My point stands that a local economy is far more than just retail and cafes. There are plenty of businesses which cannot rely on tourists for income, which is why communities need a critical mass of people living and working in the area in order to flourish.

Actually, what I said was:

"There are lots of things that locals will usually spend money on locally, and which tourists *will not usually spend money on."

I stand by that. Tourists don't usually spend money on those things.

Commuters ruin villages as well. There’s one near me where their kids don’t go to the local school, they go to private schools 20 miles away. They don’t shop in the village, they shop in the next big town.
My friend lived in a tiny village (no tourist rentals) that couldn’t sustain a village shop as no one would buy from it, they all shopped where they worked, they didn’t use the pub either which also closed.

There’s no solution to this. We are encouraged to holiday in the U.K. but then we aren’t wanted. I want to take DD away and show her interesting places and spend time away from our deprived town. We don’t want to stay in hotels as we need a kitchen (food allergies) and no money in the world would get me to camp. We’ve stayed in caravan parks where they have been massively overpriced and fucking noisy. Where do we go, are national parks only for the use of people who live there?

I think second home owners who never use them are worse. I have a friend on a farm in North Yorkshire who lives opposite a chocolate box cottage. It’s been owned by the same family for years. They use it two weeks a year and that’s it. I think she would prefer it if they did rent it.

Also banning second homes doesn’t necessarily make the houses affordable for locals, house prices are high. It might bring prices down but it might mean influx of people from London who now WFH and still don’t massively contribute to local economy.

When we're on holiday (which is around 4x a year), I always use the time to get a hair cut and do other beauty treatments which I dont get the opportunity to do usually.

I also tend to get my tyres/breaks done or other maintainance on the car (again no time to do this at other times if not on holiday),

With all due respect, I think you are quite unusual with these two things. No-one I know (myself included) would do chores like getting the car sorted while away on holiday, and hair and beauty appointments would usually be done by the people you normally go to at home (rather than risking going to someone you don't know)

I always use hairdressers/beauticans on holidays, because they're a treat and that's when I've extra time.
I don't use gps, vets or garages though, except for emergencies.
As for commuters ....the reason people tend to shop in supermarkets in larger towns is because they're cheaper. It's all very well supporting local businesses, but not when people can't afford it. And it's not just commuters who do this.

@ILikeHotWaterBottles
And ensure they can only charge the mortgage rate of the house for rental purposes. No more

Do you have any idea how mortgages work? It really doesn't seem like it.

What about people who want to go on holiday somewhere peaceful without being surrounded by others? I don't want to stay in a caravan cheek by jowl with other holidaymakers, or stay in a pub/hotel room without kitchen facilities 🤷🏼‍♀️

Go abroad to holiday

People have an issue with you flying

Stay in UK

People have an issue with people owning and letting out holiday cottages

Always someone not happy with your holiday choice!

@Dobbysgotthesocks am I correct in remembering you have a DD? If I am, how is she doing?

Will your local council not be obliged to house you once you're made homeless?

Have you tried FB etc to ask about any vacant 'granny flat' type things not currently occupied but not advertised as for rent.

The whole second home/holiday home issue is a symptom of a big problem but it is not a cause.

The main problem is that globalisation has totally put paid to the rural economy. 40 years ago people in rural areas got similar jobs to everyone else, they worked in banks, post offices, local independent shops and manufacturing businesses.

My in laws used to have a shop in a market town, it sold all sorts of clothes from country working clothes, everyday clothes, smart clothes, school uniform, socks, underwear everything - if you could wear it they sold it. They also had a work room which did tailoring and alterations. They employed around 20 people at their busiest.

Their business simply couldn't survive the modern retail world. Their's, and many other businesses have been pushed out first by the big national chains and now by online shopping. In smaller towns banks have closed, post offices have closed, cottage hospitals and doctors surgeries have closed, schools have closed or merged, libraries have closed and there are just not enough well paid jobs around any more. My DH used to work for a electronics company in the nearest town, that closed down 20 years ago as the manufacturing was outsourced to the Far East, and that happened to many other companies too.

Younger people move away to find jobs and the whole heart of the community changes. A fair number of second homes were originally family homes, the elderly parents have died or downsized and the adult children want to keep the house, their childhood home, for holidays.

This has obviously happened in other regions too, particularly areas which had heavy industry and mining, all that industry has disappeared and those well paid jobs have never been replaced.

The regions of the U.K. have just been forgotten, large swathes of the country have had no economic investment for decades - the left behinds.

In attractive areas tourism has filled the gap and so holiday home ownership increased and pushed up house prices way beyond what most low paid local people can afford.

Providing more well paid jobs in rural areas would do a lot to stop this problem.

@DirtyteaCup

Having a kitchen so that you can arrive with your Ocado order or Fortnums hamper and contribute nothing to the local economy?

Nope. Happy to use local supermarkets, petrol, paid car parks, attractions etc etc

People often need a kitchen to 'cope' with dietary restrictions, allergies, SEN needs, etc.

plus you cant win. If you use local shops/petrol stations/park in town you're accused of clogging up the town & using resources that are for locals.

I'm interested to read the list of things that people say are gone from their local country villages and towns. It's remarkably similar to the good sized and very urban commuter town near me. There used to be 3 banks, they are all closed. There has been a lot of building of "affordable" housing in the area (like shared ownership) and the 3 local doctors surgeries aren't taking on any new patients. Ditto NHS dentists, there are simply no NHS places. The butcher, post office and bakers are gone. There is an Asda in their place. Even Boots the chemist closed. Where there were two hairdressers there is now a Poundland and a charity shop (there are 5 charity shops). Superdrug went and is still and empty building. Talking of empty buildings... still empty are the shops that housed Nat West bank, Barclays bank, Superdrug and the Post Office. This isn't some remote place, it has loads of housing, even loads within walking distance of the town centre. The population is @17.5 k. A large number of commuters and a large number of unemployed.

So I can't help but wonder whether, when all this amazing throwing out of the second home owners and Air B+B hosts has happened - will a local community grow up with all these lovely local shops that will be used by all the newly housed local people? Or will they do what a large proportion of the population do - travel to the supermarkets to save money, book up their grocery deliveries etc?
I don't know what the answer is but I'm uncomfortable about dictating where people can go on holiday by removing vast numbers of holiday cottages and the like. I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than pay to go and stay in any holiday park, however nice their caravans and lodges are.

Not an easy situation to resolve is it?

@durianeater we still have all our hairdressers, corner shops, chemists, post office and drs surgery here. Traditional butchers and hardware shops are closing. But I see no reason why people would not go to the hairdressers as often as in the past.

@DirtyteaCup where do you holiday out of interest?

We were in Salcombe, Devon, a short while ago. We stayed in a very good hotel, which was not nearly as good as it should have been due to staff shortages. It was heartbreaking for the owners and the staff.

In the town, pubs and shops were closed for part of the day/week, due to staff shortages. The entire place has been colonised by second home owners who, pretty soon, will not be enjoying their holidays as there will be absolutely no-one there to cater to their needs. Nothing will be open. No-one on an average wage can afford to live there.

That’s the end game unless something is done pretty quickly to save these communities.

Lucky you. I suspect in this town the hairdressers probably went under due to covid, and possibly also trying to recover their businesses would have been affected by the fact that a large proportion of their customer base aren't particularly well off. The butchers and bakers were gone before covid.

It's not just staff to work in the hospitality industry that are priced out due to second homes. I work in a hospital in a popular UK tourism area, and have seen first hand people wanting to move here for jobs who have been unable to find anywhere to live and have had to leave. We are on our knees with staff shortages and have to deal with the significant extra pressure of holiday makers who get sick or injured while they are here.

I don't know what the answer is as my area has been largely built on tourism over the last 50 or so years, we do need a certain amount of holiday lets as our local economy relies on it. But its gone way too far now, I'd support an outright ban on air b'n'b lets that aren't part of a normal home (like a spare room). I have friends who have been turfed out of their rental homes due to this and its disgusting. Pure greed.

I have a friend who converted her big attic into a self contained holiday let, this I am fine with.

Without the tourists no-one servicing them would be earning money to use to run a car and have it serviced. It’s those tourists actually facilitating and funding much of the locals spending.

Some of these issues aren’t exclusive to rural communities though. DH grew up in an area of a major city. Prices have gone through the roof, the community there has gone. Now full of students, young professionals and air b&bs. The schools have closed so kids have to travel to primary, pubs have gone and lots of normal shops (just lots of coffee shops and takeaways). MIL complains bitterly about how it’s ruined. When she’s gone her flat will be full of students I’m guessing.

It is ridiculous to claim too many tourists do not negatively affect an area. Schools close if there are too few families living in an area. So families no longer want to live there.
My friend lives in an area where even the cafes close down out of tourist season. There is hardly any useful shops or services left and she is planning to love out.