To be reluctant to pay travel costs again

[Subaru4336]

Pre-pandemic I used to have a 4+hr commute, and worked in the office 3 days/week, leaving home ~5am and returning home after 7pm. Because I was travelling 3 days a week, an annual season ticket was the cheapest option.

Fast forward to now, and my company are wanting to mandate a minimum of 1 day/week in the office. This would represent a cost of ~£300/mth, which I obviously haven't been paying for the last 2.5yrs.

If I were to go to the office, I would still spend a significant time on Teams calls, as my team are spread across various locations (and have different offices as their local hubs).

We've had below inflation payrises for at least the last 10 years, and so I'm feeling somewhat resentful that my household budget has to take a £300/mth hit, on top of all the other rising costs, just to sit somewhere different on Teams, and be 'present' in the office.

Am I being unreasonable?!

I agree with @TartanCurtains :

"A lot of the pleasure and sense of belonging I got from my organisation has probably gone for good now. I'm sad things are going this way, but suspect we're too far gone now."

I believe irreparable damage has been done by covid. We can't go back, we won't. Fine to stay at home if you are aged 40 or 50, put a load of washing on while you are doing your work. When my youngest teen does eventually take a job, I want him in the office, being trained, part of a team, going out for a pint occasionally.

@Oblomov22 I'm 52 and I agree with every word @TartanCurtains has written.

Ironically pre covid was the best work period for me in my career. We had a team all based together, we worked hard but had lots of laughs. Every fortnight an improbable number of us would pile into a small room to work out our project goals.

It would likely have changed anyway, but now with hot desking and nobody in on the same day, the old camaraderie has completely gone. I doubt it's ever coming back. I was desperate to get back into the office, but it's irreparably changed so it's not much fun anymore either.

I am beginning to become reluctant to pay travel costs - during the pandemic the road were empty as were trains and I could get to work easily perhaps having read my book or some work "papers" on my train days.
I now have to spend my journey standing with my face shoved into someone's armpit (and the fares have risen for the privilege) no more driving in now jams and parking charges have returned.

I’m 27 and I never socialised with work colleagues before the pandemic. People wanted to get home asap because of their commutes, kids etc.

Agreed on all points. Quite a few MNers seem very keen on the idea that training, learning etc are less effective when not in the physical presence of colleagues, but that hasn't been my experience at all. And particularly for those of us not within striking distance of London working in quite specialist roles, training opportunities have really opened up. Geographical exclusion from opportunities has been a big problem in the UK.

OP if your manager actually agrees with you, do you think this is genuinely going to happen? I'm aware anecdotally of a couple of people where head office/board etc have said one thing and the people with actual responsibility for getting the work done have smiled, nodded and ignored. A lot depends on how hard you'd be to replace I suppose.

@Oblomov22 agree with the need of office based staff to train the recruits. Ds started an entry level job earlier this year and is struggling to be integrated into the ongoing team work, which he needs experience of as part of his training. Attending meetings on Teams is no substitute for physical presence to discuss work with and learning from activity around you. He was expecting to be office based full time but most make it less than once a week. Long term there is a risk that it will lead to dysfunctional teams, inefficiency and a lack of awareness or initiative beyond their personal role.

I agree Lizs. Most of here on mn have dc, and I can't believe that many would want their children to take a trainee lawyer/accountant/anything else position with bedroom training. It's so sad. It's so wrong. I fear it won't change anytime soon though.

It's interesting that this is viewed as a choice between a trainee position in an office or remotely, the implication being that a trainee position requiring physical presence is going to be accessible. One thing I don't want for my DC is to be excluded from any opportunity that required living in the south east, like I was.

I would look a bit aghast at a trainee lawyer who had to be around other lawyers in an office to be able to do their job.
But then I do think many young people expect a level of hand-holding that most of us older people did not get.

It's hardly hand holding for young professionals to need to see older ones in action so they can model their behaviour. Helpful tips and free advice are more readily bestowed when you're there in person or down the pub after work on a Friday night.

I had a ball working in my 20s with a really good social life with my co workers. I get wfh has come in and some people like it, but this need to deny that anything good can come from working together in person refuses to acknowledge that most people learn through on the job and yo have no idea what others are doing when you wfh.

Is career benefit from being down the pub on a Friday night really something we should be uncritically assessing as a benefit of working in person? It quite obviously excludes some groups, even amongst those who are able to live close enough to be able to access the best job opportunities. For example observant Muslims, those of us who had DC and responsibilities in our 20s, observant Jews, my neurodiverse child who's likely to struggle with that kind of environment and would need to go home to rest after a day of being around other people in a workplace.

The claims that a move towards more wfh disadvantages our younger people seem to be predicated on the idea that they all have certain characteristics.

😂😂😂😂😂 @Funkyblues101 did it make you feel better to come and say that?!

As a previous poster said (sorry, I don't recall which), I think there will be a significant majority who will smile and nod, and carry on doing the same as they've been doing.

I'm willingly going in 3 days in one week next week, because the meetings being held will work best face to face; as I've said, I'm not saying I never want to set foot in an office again, was simply wondering if being annoyed about a 1 day/wk mandate was unreasonable.

I agree it's sad that things are different, I hugely miss the pre-covid office environment, unfortunately it's no longer the same, with vast banks of empty desks.

@rookiemere copying modelled behaviour?? I can understand that applying in court or at a presentation. But what behaviour do you think younger staff should be copying from older staff in the office? I ask because I can't think of one example.

@appl that kind of old-fashioned work environment you are right entrenches discrimination. It is incredibly old-fashioned. We can do better these days.

@antelopevalley I mean things like hearing how they react to things in meetings and in calls, seeing how they treat reception staff and juniors. All subtle stuff.I don't know maybe you're right, maybe there is no benefit in seeing how others work, but it's how I've developed over the years by watching really good people do their job and bringing aspects of it into my own performance.
It can be done over Teams and emails etc. but being in the office just seems to make it happen quicker.

It's startling to me that people think they can leave the sheltered life of school and university and they feel there's nothing to learn from experienced colleagues. I didn't properly start learning my skills until I watched more experienced people handling different situations in a variety of styles and manner. I've worked with university leavers and the thought that they're set with all the skills they need for life is quite worrying.

@rookiemere I would have expected a trainee lawyer to know how to talk to reception staff, etc. They are not kids who have just left school.
But then I am not middle-class. Even the people I know who went to university had done plenty of jobs before graduating. They did not live a sheltered life where they had to be taught this stuff as 21-year-olds.

And working as the most junior member of staff in jobs as an 18-year-old teaches you quickly how not to treat others and how to treat others well.

I vowed though never to work for a lawyer again. Lawyers IME is more likely to treat junior staff badly than other groups of people. I was shocked at how some of them thought they could speak to me. There were a few nice ones, but usually, the ones who thought they were nice, were simply patronising. I thought at first it was the particular place I worked, but two other stints in practices taught me it was pretty rife for experienced lawyers to talk like shit to their low-status staff.

In medieval times wealthy families sent their teenagers to other rich houses to do very low-status jobs. There was an idea that you could not be served until you had learned how to serve others. I think there is a lot of truth in this old-fashioned idea. You really want to teach people subtle stuff on how to relate? Get them a job as a teenager in an employer working with people with high status and in a call centre. If you can do both those jobs well, you can talk to anyone over the phone well, and know how to talk to others with lower status than you.

@let No one is claiming university leavers are set with all the skills they will ever need. That is a strawman. But I would expect them to have the basic skills to manage their work and life.

@antelopevalley so we're both in agreement that a good way for young people to learn how to work with others is to actually work in the same place as others, like say for example an office ?

I'm still learning new things about how to work best with others in my 50s. I shudder to think of my management style in my 30s although it seemed to work well enough at the time.

@rook
The level of skills you get from working with colleagues is basic stuff. I mentioned call centres. Good call centres give six weeks of full-time training.

@rookiemere did you not get any management training and mentoring? Or were you just expected magically to have the necessary skills?