Is it me who is the problem?

[Onlyrainbows]

I don't consider myself a "Karen" but I don't understand why I sometimes do clash with people. I used to think it was them, but maybe it's me? (Or maybe I just need to go back to sleep it's my birthday after all!)

Two examples:

Some time ago I was made redundant and was desperate for a job. I contacted career coaches and charities. The coaches seemed for the most part predatory (or didn't seem to offer quick fixes) but the charity was the worst. Their whole ethos is to get remote jobs. They were never honest that they really worked for entry level jobs and that I was out of their "scope". Never helped with my CV, and gave me very basic interview coaching that I didn't need (I wanted to discuss the feedback that I had received so far). I eventually found a job myself and signed off their services. They asked for feedback (and gave it) and was supposed to sign some forms so they could get funding from the local council, they never got back to me (but have always wondered why).

Lated one was a specialist nurse at my local hospital. I went back to visit my family across the pond and got a second opinion because a) it's easy and cheap b) I wanted to know what the protocols were over there. It never was because I mistrusted the NHS or anything, it's just a normal thing to do over there. The consultant gave a completely different diagnosis (much worse) and suggested swift action. Bear in mind I was on the public hospital pathway as it's a hybrid system, but ultimately the doctors had nothing to gain from me at this point. So I came back and asked for second/third opinion over here. It was a while saga, had to put a complaint with PALS etc...

So I don't know .. have I had by luck? Is it my tone of voice? (Which can come across as louder), my American accent?

I've never had this sort of issues at work, so I don't think it's necessarily me, but maybe even after 12+ years living in the UK I still haven't cracked down how to read people? Or how to request for things?

@Meraas
"OMG give it a rest Clary. I think 50 people telling OP off is enough."

And yet, she keeps it up, hasn't exactly got through to her, has it?!

@Onlyrainbows - it's very hard to tell, because no matter how hard you try you will give "your" version of events.

Some nurses are angels, others are complete cows. Some employment agencies are great, others target one particular section of society and aren't necessarily good at telling people that.

If they're the only 2 examples you have, the it's likely them. If you come across this a lot, then you need to look to yourself. Could you come across as arrogant without meaning to? Do you expect a type of service incompatible with British culture? Could it be as simple as your accent that creates a bias against you?

You might need to ask a brutally honest friend and see what they say.

Keith? wtf has Keith got to do with anything? No one ever used this, ever. Karen is misogyny and your defensive nonsense doesn't excuse it.

I think there is a high chance its you.

As for the Karen thing..I would have thought you would know the true meaning... It's not about asking for the manager... especially as you claim to have an accent.. that could be American ?

Was it a "return to the workplace" - type thing run by the jobcentre for the long term unemployed/ those on UC for too long that you attended? Just wondering what sort of charity it was and why it wasn't right for you?
Do you get on with people in RL ie friends, family etc?

Me again. I've sent you a dm. Hope you are having an ok week so far.

Ld

@Yerroblemom1923 no it was one for "remote jobs in the county" . I've always worked remotely so have little to no "real interaction" on a day to day basis but I'm client facing and have never had any issue in my 15+ years of employment.

I've never been in a situation when complaining is needed around friends, but my exH said that I know how to complain and get what I want.

This might help you www.theguardian.com/fashion/2020/apr/13/the-karen-meme-is-everywhere-and-it-has-become-mired-in-sexism

You told the charity that you needed a job ASAP, you needed help pronto, you were desperate for a job and then said that you didn't want entry level.

Maybe they just assumed that you needed a job as much as you told them you did?

@slashlover basically the one thing I needed was to know how to best position my CV. Given that they're supposedly specialists in remote jobs, they'd have an idea of what type of remote jobs there were out there, and help tailor my CV around that.

The other piece of help I wanted was to help me decipher interview feedback. One of them wasn't even vague it said that I would suit business operations, but instead this charity person said that maybe "they just didn't like me as a person" and went on to give me basic advice of how to behave on Zoom. When I've been in zoom meetings (and blue jeans, WebEx, and Skype) since 2010.

OP, you're not helping yourself with this. I do understand that the many telling-offs wrt using 'Karen' is irksome but your defensiveness combined with the petulant 'it's my birthday and you're being mean' is grating. Of course, we on this forum don't know if you're like this in other interactions.

The examples you give sound like a clash of expectations in the first one and culture in the second one. Hope you got more sleep and had a good birthday.

I dont 100% understand your two scenarios but are your expectations perhaps quite high having come from US service culture?

The people from whom you were seeking help in both cases will have been busy with lots of people needing their services. I wonder if you expected a degree of personal support that was beyond their remit.

I agree with both of you, I would believe it's a mix of culture, expectations, and service levels

Oh and just because you've been on zoom since 2010 doesnt mean you been using it perfectly or coming across amazingly that whole time.

Being receptive to feedback is really important. If someone was giving you that "basic" zoom feedback, start by assuming that however you came across gave the impression you needed it.

Also were your salary expectations realistic? If you are struggling to get the sort of job you want and arent getting past interviews, are you stretching a bit for a salary people don't think you are worth just yet? Just because you need the money, or even if you've earned it before, doesnt mean you are worth that amount to another employer if they feel you arent impressing in interviews

I don't really see your issue... The first was some work coaching that just didn't work out, because it wasn't really aimed at you. The second was just asking for another opinion over some health stuff?
Neither of them seem like they'd reflect badly on you, and I can't see that you've done anything wrong. Particularly in the first case. Just... life is full of "sometimes things work out, and sometimes they don't". I wouldn't take it as a attack on your personality.

That being said... you're American/Canadian (those accents are the same to Brits)? Middle-aged, white Americans abroad DO have a reputation of being a bit... "culturally obnoxious". Like, "if they don't do it MY way, they are WRONG!" Not sure what you can do about that though!

You should have gone to a proper recruitment consultancy, really, where they actually have access to jobs they can put you up for. There are multitudes of jobs now which are fully home based, in both public and private sector, so most applicants need to demonstrate how they would build great relationships in remote or hybrid settings. Any good consultant will help you optimise the way you present your experience to show how you would be a great candidate for a remote or hybrid role.

However, the issue here isn’t actually the things they offer but the way you seem to have reacted to finding out that their service didn’t match your expectations. They aren’t mind readers. They don’t know how long you’ve been using Skype for, or how specialised and narrow was the advice you were seeking. It’s perfectly possible to find out that their service isn’t suitable for you and end the session in a polite, calm and respectful way.

It sounds to me as though you are feeling some sort of shame or humiliation at being in the situation you are, and are acting out with people who are just doing their jobs, but your reaction is to take their help, if you feel it’s beneath you, as an attack. Have you had trouble at work in the past with people who you feel are your inferiors being in positions where they have some authority over you? Do you often feel that you are ‘above’ others, or that you know better than them?

I am getting the sense here that there is a lot behind your interactions with other people that you’re not aware of.

@InChocolateWeTrust she didn't give me any personalised feedback it was just a standard PPT presentation that they give to everyone. Oddly enough I got a job that same week. I'm quite successful at my new job, and I'm even interviewing for the same role in a different company, with a 50% pay increase. So I definitely know my value :)

Nope, never ever have had any issue at work. I always had great feedback from the team I managed and my line managers.

BTW I did ask very openly if they could help me as I had already been though another charity in the past, and was very explicit about my needs and expectations. There were a few meetings around that, but different people did different things and maybe they didn't communicate very well between them, that I wouldn't know. That's why the lady that was with me at that training session (not the trainer) was surprised they gave me the standard low level "how to interview" presentation.