Public sector pay rise demands unreasonable?

[stickershock]

I’m a nurse and outraged that we’ll only be getting (most likely) a 3% wage increase. I’m fully in favour of a strike action. But I’ve also just read that the junior doctors are planning a strike if they aren’t awarded a 22% increase 😮

We have all been losing wages year on year but 22% seems unrealistic. AIBU or have they got brilliant bargaining tactics?

@MarshaBradyo

Your choice but I think declaring a thread 27 pages long an echo chamber because of 1 very mild comment seems a bit of an over reaction

I’m thinking of other threads actually but yeah snide comments like below I’m over them

I cba to deal with it, I’m sure someone else will be along to debate

@MarshaBradyo I do not know if you are aware, but your comments come across as pretty snidy.

I haven’t personally attacked anyone or made snide comments as pp

I’ve put up some economic figures which people are free to disagree with

anyway I’m out, insult others if that’s what people want to do

I can only speak for NHS here. When the pay bands were introduced, the top of the band was considered the market rate for that role but it was acknowledged that it takes years of experience to achieve this so they introduced a band. An individual starts at the bottom and subject to satisfactory annual appraisal and meeting targets, they move up each year until they reach the top which is the rate for their profession. However, in attempts to save money, the in between rises have been eroded over the years so you sit at the bottom for multiple years then hit the top.

Once at the top, there are no more rises so the bands need to be lifted in line with inflation to keep up with costs. This has not happened so they are were least 10% below 10 years ago before these new cost of living rises

i don’t understand how it works either. So will people not at the top of a band get the 3% (or whatever % it will be) PLUS the increment for their band, or will everyone just get the 3%?

@Overthebow

Every point in the band would get the 3 %.

Last time we got a pay rise they removed points on the band so you got an increment every 3 years instead of every year.

So could there be a nurse who came into the profession 3 years ago on the bottom band and tier and not had any payrise at all. I.e they started on £24k and still on 24k as they haven’t moved up any points within the band too?

@Applegreenb

And a nurse who has been at the top of the band for 20 years

Yeah keep giving everyone pay rises fuel inflation

Apologies

Its 2 years for some bands, 3 for others and 5 for the higher bands

Whats the alternative @CMZ2018

Theoretically, but unlikely. They'd have to have failed to have met their targets 2 years in a row. Which would usually result in an improvement plan or disciplinary action.

The range between top and bottom of the bands isn't big though, like band 7 is £40k - £45k (roughly) and it'll take you 5+ years to get to the top.

Now the annual rise has been removed that is absolutely what happens for the first 2 years then a small increase at year 3. You move up the points but there is no increase in salary until year 3 and then another a few years later

That’s really interesting thank you for taking the time to explain this! Does sound like it really needs to be shaken up!

For comparison in our private sector role, you have have yearly increases within your band until you get to the top of your band which is typically 1-2%. Probably similar to the old system in public sector. Then you get stuck and no pay rises however we probably have more room to move sideways and upwards in our business which helps people.

It also sounds like our banding is a lot wider (can be 10-15k) which allows for more increases without being stuck at the top. Only downside of that is you can be doing the same job as another person for 15k less.

That's correct, we don't have any year-to-year increase, just when you move up within the band. Notably, for the lower bands, there are only two points, so after a couple of years, you cap out your salary.

Also, unlike many private sector positions, there is no compensation for other experience or achievement within your role, you only progress in pay along iwth the clock. I have colleagues of the same band who do the absolute minimum and are paid precisely the same as I am, no matter how hard I work, whether I do any additional courses, etc.

When did that come in? I got my increment.

That’s really interesting thank you for taking the time to explain this! Does sound like it really needs to be shaken up!

I think that was the shake up. I left the NHS just as it was introduced, before it was an annual increment through the pay points.

Surely it’s the point of capitalism. You can’t afford stuff. It gets cheaper.
The problem is too many people get paid a shit load whilst others are in NMW. So nothing goes down whilst they keep the market buoyant.

@Thebeastofsleep it was introduced with the first payrise after 8+ years of freezes around 2018/9. As 'they had no money' this was how they justified offering a tiny under inflation pay rise. The initial proposal was cutting annual leave allowance to pay for it which effectively meant a pay cut.

Agree @stickershock@stickershock

Sorry phone froze. Agree @stickershock one of the things that pushed me to leave was that I did a prescribing course, was given added responsibility of prescribing, my indemnity went up 3 fold, my profession body fees increased too to use the post nominal after my name but not a penny more in pay for this. A huge deal of more work and responsibility for absolutely nothing

People have no idea how bad things are...

@prescribingmum I’m a prescriber, too, as well as hold a few other courses that are desirable and benefit the hospital greatly but I’m not compensated at all for it. And yes, every year paying so much on professional fees and nothing in return. where did you go after leaving NHS? I have looked at working in the private healthcare sector, but pay doesn’t seem that much higher?

Wow. I hope they don't pull that at my trust. I'm already on the path to leaving but that would seal the deal.

@Thebeastofsleep

It has been pulled in every trust.

Its across the whole of the nhs. The pay scales for agenda for change were all changed

@Thebeastofsleep , yes this happened a few years back under the new AfC. It’s the whole of the NHS.