Toddler OCDs, to think this is not normal?

[grandiosegoose]

I have a 4 year old who can exhibit some full-on meltdowns when things are not executed in the exact way they “should be done”. They have a mad ritual around most everyday things like dressing up, toothbrushing and so on and come up with new rules, demands all the time. This also extends to other people, like dictating how to put on granddad’s glasses etc. If the ritual is not respected then a complete meltdown follows often with violence.

Very often there are never-ending public meltdowns too about having to execute things in a certain way even if it’s dangerous, doesn’t make sense or near impossible. No distraction, bribery etc usually works (maybe a very major distraction).

It feels like I’ve tried everything and nothing worked. In the end I end up giving in because the situation only escalates.

I’m thinking this is not just normal toddler stuff? There are so many of these OCDs and demands, it’s difficult to live like this. What would you do?

Just forgot to add GP has not been useful, all he said was to keep an eye on it. I could tell he had no idea… Nursery has been similarly useless with answering my questions, so I’ve no idea what to do really. Any advice is appreciated.

Have you considered ASD?

OP, a 4 year old isn’t a toddler. I agree that this behaviour isn’t typical. Can you talk to a nurse?

I was also going to ask if you've considered Autism. We are currently pursuing a diagnosis for our eldest and they display quite similar behaviour to what you are describing.

If they were two I would say par for the course, if a bit extreme with the violence.

By four I would expect them to be past that really.

Keep a log of the behaviour- what led to the behaviour, what the behaviour looked like, what happened afterwards (you can download ABC forms for this - Antecedent Behaviour Consequence).
That way you can start to see if there are any patterns with either particular events, people, places etc

Does he exhibit this behaviour at nursery? Does he have a consistent routine? Assuming there is no trauma, stable family background, dad part of family unit etc

Yes, I’m worried there’s some issue. I’m not sure how to handle the meltdowns and didn’t find anything online that worked with him.

A 4 year old is not a toddler.
The behaviour you have described does not sound very typical of a 4 year old.

Well, the gp used the term toddler, sort of saying toddlers are difficult, keep an eye on it… I wasn’t too sure whether to push for an autism evaluation. Based on what I’ve read he didn’t really fit the description, no lack of imaginative play, no speech delay, motor skills are fine, just a lot of problems with behaviour.

It feels like I’ve tried everything and nothing worked.

What have you tried @grandiosegoose ?

@FluffyDogMother tried being firm and not giving in to mad demands, tried talking through it, reassuring that nothing bad happens if we don’t follow the routine, distracting, bribing, being super patient etc… i always take snacks and water with me even for the shortest of walks. Seems like nothing works and eventually just have to give in to the demands.

It could be ADHD or ASD and ADHD or some other neurodiversity issue.

I’d ask for a referral for assessment. Neurodiversity can manifest in lots of different ways. There’s no one size fits all list of symptoms.

Based on what I’ve read he didn’t really fit the description, no lack of imaginative play, no speech delay, motor skills are fine, just a lot of problems with behaviour.

My autistic DC have a great imagination, advanced speech and my eldest walked early. They also make great eye contact and the youngest loves a cuddle and is very empathetic. Still autistic.

My eldest exhibited similar behaviour, her diagnosis later on was ADHD and possibly something else which didn't need diagnosing because her teaching plan was needs based. It's true that OCD is often Autism. My youngest who is autistic did have speech issues but her imaginative play was amazing. She wasn't diagnosed until her teens.

My son was the same. He is autistic. Speech never a problem, imagination I thought was great but in reality he was copying complex stories he had heard/seen, eye contact always good, excellent fine motor skills and normal gross motor skills. He was diagnosed as a teenager. The social problems became increasingly obvious with time.

My son is a bit like this I think. He likes routines, gets upset of things are changes etc. he also has a speech delay. He's recently been diagnosed as autistic and he's 4 years and 3 months

Yes, admittedly I’m not very knowledgeable regarding ASD… @DontLikeCoffee may I ask what were the main symptoms which made you think your kids could be autistic?

Speak to your health visitor, they might be able to do a referral. GPs are often useless with things like this in my experience.

Hi @grandiosegoose . I think with my eldest I always knew, the meltdowns mainly. We had a lot of aggression. Also his memory for things, talked really early, knew his numbers.

None of this really presented itself until school, when he started to struggle with friends and coordination issues in PE. Not understanding social cues is very common. Autistic children often ‘mask’ at school because they’re trying to fit into a neuro typical world. The analogy is being like a coke bottle which gets shaken up each day and explodes when they get home. I would google it along with masking and stimming.

My other DC, again had issues at school. The meltdowns are often down to anxiety, as they’re anxiety levels are higher.

HV was even more useless to be honest, I asked for advice before regarding aggressive behaviour and she just pretty much laughed it off. I think I need to learn a bit more about ASD and other issues to be able convince GP or go private.

Is there anything other than medication that worked for your DCs for managing OCDs or violent tantrums?

Autism is a spectrum. A child who has autism doesn't always have every symptom to fit a diagnosis. Eg: my DS has never lacked in imaginative play and has no speech delay, but has definitely got autism. DS also has a diagnosis of ADHD, and take medications for that. In turn, his tantrums have become less frequent. Strict routines and boundaries have helped, too.

Personally, I would go private, OP. The sooner you can talk to a paed/psych about it, the better. It is not just for your DC, it is also for you, too.

@grandiosegoose
We we're never given medication for DS's meltdowns or ocd traits. His psychiatrist said they were due to underlying anxieties related to his autism so we worked on finding out what his anxieties were and helping him manage them. It took a few years to get on top of it all.

He finally went on antidepressants aged 15 as he developed depression but they made no difference to his ocd traits.

I don't think it sounds like OCD OP (I have extensive knowledge of OCD). Like others, I would be questioning ASD and go back (perhaps to a different GP) to ask for a referral for an assessment.

No experience but could you maybe try this:

Night before he wakes up write a list, in order, of all the things you're going to do the following day with who and where.
When he wakes, find a time to talk through the things and explain the expected behaviour.
Agree that not everyone wants to do things his way and this is OK, lots of reassurance.
Agree that when he feels the need to do something in a particular way he lets you know and if it's not appropriate to do things his way in that particular instance say it's sticker time and you place a sticker on that event on the list. If it's something on the list you just wrote it on and add a sticker. If HD successfully gets stickers on all things its a treat at the end of the day.

This is only an idea BTW. May help, may not.

Your kid is not a toddler
Nor behaving symptoms of ocd!
Your kid likes rules and routines and doesn't like them changing.
Amd them throws tantrums
This could be many things.
Most important is to see how the kid is at say, kindy or something like that

And pp stop assuming asd straight away. Some kids just like structure. Some kids are very manipulative. Some kids are brats. Not all kids that like rules/structure are asd thankfully