Confirmation fatigue! A live example

[Coffeetree]

So I need everyone's input. I don't know if I'm old/out of touch or just missed something.

Last Christmas I had a thread about confirmation fatigue and not understanding why specific social plans have to be confirmed and reconfirmed all the time. In an example I'd been invited to someone's house for lunch on a specific day and time, Id said yes thanks, and they acted surprised when I actually showed up because "we never confirmed ".

So here's a live example. Earlier this week, my old work buddy and I made plans to meet for a coffee and catch up in city centre tomorrow. Specific date and time and meeting place.

He literally just texted me, "Do you still want to meet tomorrow or do you want to take a rain check?"

Is this the reconfirmation that's supposed to be standard now? Because I'm reading that he's fishing for a cancel?

(He's gay with a husband so there's no dating element.)

Interested in people's perspectives!

(And please no shirty comments about this being unimportant. I'm just mulling this over my Hot Girl Iced Coffee.)

It sounds to me as if your friend just wants confirmation, so I'd confirm. And go, and have a nice time.
Generally though, it annoys me when people hint about cancelling, as if they want to but need it to be seen as a shared decision.

That's an interesting perspective!

Personally, maybe perversely, I'd rather show up to definite plans and be stood up. Then at least I'd know where I stood with someone and not bother again.

Yeah, the rain check thing makes it sound like he might want to cancel. Or maybe he's anxious/insecure and doesn't think you really want to meet and is offering you an out. I have somewhat low self esteem and sometimes can't quite grasp that people would want to hang out with me, and I could see myself doing this. Although I would text something like "are we still on for tomorrow? The weather looks lush!" so it shows that I'm up for it if they are, but they can still reply with a cancel. Sounds a bit complicated now that I've written it here. 😂

Even when I'm not anxious I do do the double check the night before or in the morning. Sometimes it's just to get a bit excited about it I guess.

Yes, I too think he wants to cancel but wants to give you the mental load of cancelling.

I see you only made the plan this week, so really no need for the text, but if he had to send it he could have said 'are you still Ok for tomorrow? If so, looking forward to it!'.

This way he is

a) reminding you and therefore confirming he won't have a wasted trip

b) not going to make you feel guilty if you had actually forgotten/couldn't make it

c) Actually looking forward to seeing you and will be pleased if you can meet.

The 'do you want to take a rain check' suggests to me that yes, he does want to take a rain check.

If you reply you are fine to meet, because of his caveat you now feel you have to respond in kind e.g. - 'unless you can't.'

And he will say 'oh no no that's fine' and you will dance around it and you will have way overthought what should be a simple interaction and go, with the feeling he doesn't really want to be there anyway.

Phew!

Yes!

I mean it's not a huge deal because he's an old friend but imagine how fraught all that is with someone you're just getting to know. Ugh.

After being let down on multiple occasions, I always double-check now. Usually, just a quick text to ask if they're still okay to meet up.

I think it's part of a wider trend which is largely facilitated by near-universal mobile phone use. You remember in the olden days when we'd make a plan to meet, and then be exactly where we arranged, on time? Whereas now it's easy (and therefore more common) to run 10 mins late, send a quick apology, change plans whilst en route, enable our minor social anxiety by providing incredibly detailed descriptions of our precise location so you don't have to, you know, walk around the foyer LOOKING AT PEOPLE in order to spot your friend etc. It costs nothing to send a quick message the night before / in the morning saying 'we still on for X?' and because lots of people do this, doing it becomes the reassuring thing.

Some of it's good, some of it's less good...

Specifically to your friend's text OP, I get why the turn of phrase puts you off, but in general I would assume that someone initiating the 'are we still doing X?' dance is indeed still keen. Purely because 'did you still want to meet tomorrow?', 'yes', 'oh actually I didn't' is awkward beyond words. So I think anyone wanting to make their excuses would do that from the off!

OK honestly you sound a bit judgey. People forget things. People cancel things last minute especially with another covid wave underway. Maybe you are one of life's very organised people but not everyone is the same as you. He's a good friend so you had good suggestions upthread for how to respond. 'Yes can't wait to see you! As long as you're still OK to meet?' Nice tone, gives him an out if he's just shattered, but if he's wavering gives him enough encouragement to think, yay, she wants to see me! (And yes ik you're just friends).

I think you could say something like, 'yes, of course. Looking forward to it. How about you?'

That way, you are clear you are up for it and want to see him. If he comes back with an 'oh sorry, can't' then he has the mental load/guilt of knowing he has let you down. Only fair to spread the load!

Gah, it was so much easier back in the day when you could say to a mate, meet outside Chelsea Girl at 2pm. No messaging, no change of plans.

(Actually, it wasn't easier - simpler maybe. I would have loved a phone as a teen tbh).

I think it’s part of a general cultural thing. I also think email/texts/communicating electronically leave people with too much info to manage.

I am going to a wedding. I received an invitation to which I replied via an app as directed including my dietary requirements - nothing weird - vegetarian. I was then told it was imperative I contact the hotel direct to confirm my meal. Ridiculous.

Before ubiquitous phones there was a bit less flaking. At least there was a convention that you'd make plans once. If someone didn't show, you'd wait 15 min and then decide you'd been stood up.

I'm not mad at this particular friend, but I'm a little confused in general at all the confirming and reconfirming and "Oh I'm running an hour late" and WhatsApp groups dedicated to a single lunch event. Maybe all the back-and-forth is part of the socialising aspect now?

By the way I have responded, "Yes looking forward to meeting if you are." So it's coffee and a yoga class.

in one of my friend groups we have one northerner who we all equally love - BUT she is a friggin nightmare witth plans. ask the chat in general "who wants tpo lunch next thurs?" she doesnt answer at all and used to either ask on the day if it was still happening or just announce on the day that she didnt know anything about it and now had plans
but had answered everything before and after
we now specifically tag her

I am in the North!

Depends on the event and the friend. I do normally send a message a day or so beforehand just to double check and stuff. But tbh that's just to settle my own anxieties about social situations

I like to confirm the day before just to check my friend hadn't forgotten as a wasted trip would really annoy me.

It sounds like you’re pretty securely attached - you’re okay with people, okay on your own, and you’re okay dealing with rejection and moving on to find others who will be there for you. You’re blessed!

A big chunk of the population isn’t so blessed and have varying degrees of insecure attachment. Anxiously attached people will seek lots of reassurance, like texting to confirm you’re going to be there for them. You can get annoyed with them, or you can feel compassionate towards them because they probably had people early on in their life who couldn’t be relied on.

That's a good point. And maybe all the texting beforehand adds to the fun and anticipation. Like, yes, we're really going to have fun together!

100% this. Loads of my friends are lovely but fucking useless, always better to double check. You may be naturally organised so.you find it annoying but most people confirm after previously being flaked on last minute or stood up. A quick message to confirm is preferable to being messed around.

It annoys me too. I also have people cancelling on me really last minute for ‘can’t be bothered’ reasons. Work colleagues say they have the same. I think people, are on the whole, a bit more flaky post covid.

I agree with op but I’m not secure or confident. I would feel unsure that friends wanted to meet me if I received the same message op got. So then I would withdraw and say ok maybe another time as id view it as giving the other person what they wanted.

I only do it with flakey people who are prone to cancelling and giving them an early out and me time to arrange something else. Eg this week I text night before asking if friend was still ok to meet and she said yes. Less than an hour before we’re due to meet (a 30 min drive away) she gives a bullshit excuse for not making it. Even confirmations are meaningless

People regularly do this to me and I find it incredibly annoying. I think my communication style is a little different to theirs and is a part of the reason I don't really have any friends! I seem to want a far lower level of contact than others. So I'd think a message a month was quite a lot but they'd think I'm ignoring them.

In my case it is linked to that. If we made plans and then didn't talk again for a little while, they're probably wondering whether I've forgotten. I don't know why they'd assume that because I've never forgotten or been flaky and I don't think we need to have the same conversation twice. A friend (although probably not so much anymore, again I think down to my communication) said this to me when I turned up at her wedding. She was really excited and thought I wouldn't come?! But I accepted the invitation. We didn't speak for a little while in the run up to the wedding but I didn't think I'd need to reconfirm attendance at a wedding. She said that she thought I might not turn up as she hadn't heard from me and I was confused and told her that I'd said yes when she invited me. I remember wondering whether that was very strange of me but it seems normal.

Asking if you want to cancel is fishing to cancel.

otherwise they'd just say "still okay for tomorrow? Looking forward to it".