To set these terms and conditions on my holiday rental

[olympicsrock]

We are very lucky to have a house in Europe and have decided to rent it out over August to several friends of friends. It’s not a commercial rental as we don’t want people demanding perfection. It’s lovely though! We are asking for 2/3 market rate.

One lot wanted a promise that I would refund their money if they cancelled on the day due to sickness or cancelled flights. I said unfortunately that would have to be a claim on insurance but we could refund the utilities cost.

Am I being unreasonable ?

Of course YANBU.
That's what travel insurance is for.
Are you a travel insurance company? Nope!

YANBU but there’s no way I’d be renting to friends for all this type of stuff.

YANBU though can they claim on their insurance when you aren't doing this officially? I have no clue! I personally couldn't charge close friends and family if their flight was cancelled but you are totally entitled to do so - so long as you are clear to them in advance.

Do you usually rent it to friends of friends?
If it’s an actual business for you, even if limited weeks and people, then absolutely no to a refund - insurance, as you say.

If it’s a bit of favour and I wouldn’t otherwise be letting it, I might allow cancellation. Certainly if it was an actual friend.

It sounds like you have different expectations - you’re making a bit of money casually from people you have a connection to, they’re treating you like a AirBnB host with a top notch cancellation policy. Whilst you don’t ask you don’t get… I’d be wondering what other mismatch in expectations was coming to cause hassle…

Do it as a business or don't bother as "friends of friends" don't care its discounted, they see it as as business proposition. They could rapidly not be friendly too.

Can they claim on insurance if it’s not a formal holiday rental agreement? I don’t think you’re being unreasonable though to say no refunds at the last minute if they need to cancel

Having previously rented out a holiday home at below market rent I can assure you that people still expect high standards and will expect prompt resolution of any issues. As they should they’re still paying for a holiday.

My advice would be don't mix business with pleasure! We actually run a holiday let business, and there are times when guests can be a nightmare, but we do what we have to do, and take a damage deposit in case they wreck the place. You, however, will have no come back on these friends of friends, unless you too take a damage deposit, and if they do do any damage, it's likely they'll just expect you to suck it up, and if you do take a deposit, and try to keep any of it if they ruin the place, you will quickly discover that they're not the people you thought they were. Unless you are VERY sure of these people and the way they live both normally and on holiday, I wouldn't even consider letting them rent what is effectively your second home. Finally, do you have suitable insurance for a holiday let, ie, if they set the place on fire, or flood it? If not, you may end up with your place ruined and no come back whatsoever! You have been warned!!

You're not being unreasonable but some people would rather pay more for something they can cancel (which pretty much everywhere else offfers nowadays) than risk losing 100% of a discounted property, so you may lose out on a few bookings.
Why not a stepped refund e.g. 100% within 7 days, 50% within 3 days, 25% the day before?

If you are charging even a discounted rate then you will be liable for tax and will have to meet any legislation covering rented properties.

Yes YABU. It's either a business that you have proper T&Cs for or it's not and you don't make a profit.

Hmm food for thought.
You are absolutely right about friends who are paying even mates rates demanding perfection. We do have a local housekeeper/ manager but it can be annoying when people are a bit helpless and expect expensive call-outs for very minor things eg the aircon is broken - needed to change the remote battery.
I guess this is why we have only ever let people we know stay! Eek - I am regretting going down this route already!

Sorry to be negative but this has the potential to go very wrong.

A family member had a very basic house in lovely area that they let family use. Work friends begged and begged so I did them a favour and my aunt kindly let them use it. You basically paid utilities. They were upset it wasn’t nicer. 🙄 We had told them and they were getting it practically free….never again

We have a holiday house in France and do let it in August but via an agency and never ever to friends or friends of friends. We let friends use it for free or if we are there, they come and stay with us. It just doesn’t work in my experience to let to anyone other than strangers, using a professional agency with proper T+Cs. I hope you are asking for a deposit for any damages incurred, OP. Friends of friends can break things too.

Depending on what you are charging them
you could say if they cancel you will refund charge them 2 nights or 1 night

i have a hotel booked separately in September
cost around 4k for 2 weeks AI

if my flights get cancelled it and I can’t go they will only charge me £350 which is a lot but better than loosing 4K

It seems like you’re asking for trouble really; and air con breaking is not a minor problem!

These friends of friends are still paying you so they’ll still expect certain standards to be met

Beware - my experience is that friends do not actually expect to pay their friends for this sort of thing!

“it can be annoying when people are a bit helpless and expect expensive call-outs for very minor things eg the aircon is broken - needed to change the remote battery.“

That’s not an expensive call out though, because the housekeeper can do it, not an engineer.

This is what people mean about it being professional. If I’m paying money to stay somewhere, I want your cleaning routine to include every so many months changing the battery on that remote. I’m on holiday. I don’t want to be wondering whether an A/C unit (that’s really uncommon in my home country) is broken, or it’s just the remote, or I’m pressing the wrong button…

Clear, concise laminated instruction card telling me where spare batteries are with a photo of where they go into the remote and a “try this first” troubleshoot note - fine.
But even then, better for the host to regularly change them.

In practice if they got sick and had to claim on their insurance it might be tricky. I don't think informal rentals are normally actually excluded, but because it would be so easy to run a scam it might raise red flags. Nice clear paperwork recommended.

Should the housekeeper not do a check that everything is working and change weak batteries ? You can refuse the f of f request, just be consistent and ask them to agree terms including cancellation policy when booking.

They won't be able to claim on insurance if it's not a proper holiday rental.

Either do it properly and run it as a business, or just let mates stay for free - you can't have it both ways.

@LIZS I don’t think a cleaner/ housekeeper should be expected to do a battery check on evey small appliance. We only change batteries if they run out - wasteful otherwise!

Air con not working is not a minor problem ( it was just one unit by the way ) but I don’t want to pay £50 for housekeeper call out unnecessarily.

A laminated trouble shooter card is a good idea thanks for that.
We also have a key safe with an emergency key in - don’t expect people to need housekeeper call out because they forgot to put the emergency key back.
This has happened in the past too

Damage deposit is a good idea ( at least they work in the same professional group as me) but might need to look into the insurance issue.

I haven’t agree formally to this rental yet but yes it is feeling like a can of worms at the moment.

They won't be your friends soon.

@Maurepas these people are not actually friends .
We do however ask actual friends to pay an amount when they stay to cover bills, maintenance , wear and tear etc. It’s much less than market rent though. It’s too big a favour otherwise and we just wouldn’t do it. I don’t think this is uncommon in families / friendship groups.

Have never met these people. Simply Facebook aquaintances who work in the same Industry ( but we both have lots of mutual colleagues / ‘friends’) .

Why do you say this? Do you think we are being unfair to not refund for a cancellation or is it the lack of patient with fussiness / helplessness or both?

I posted for opinions….