To set these terms and conditions on my holiday rental

[olympicsrock]

We are very lucky to have a house in Europe and have decided to rent it out over August to several friends of friends. It’s not a commercial rental as we don’t want people demanding perfection. It’s lovely though! We are asking for 2/3 market rate.

One lot wanted a promise that I would refund their money if they cancelled on the day due to sickness or cancelled flights. I said unfortunately that would have to be a claim on insurance but we could refund the utilities cost.

Am I being unreasonable ?

If you've not already agreed to this, back out now.

It seems that the renters want all the rights associated with a professional rental and you want a mate's rate type agreement but with a still fairly hefty rental amount.

Sounds like they want 'mates rates' but with the benefits of a professional rental. You need to make a decision how you use this home. It's starting to get commercial rather than friends and family, and half of why people charge so much for rental is the amount of a pain in the arse it is to rent. Such as their request to refund (which is completely U in my opinion).

So what happened with the A/C batteries then? Did they call and say there was an issue and you told them there were batteries in the kitchen drawer and to try that - and they refused to change them?

For the emergency key, again it’s about being professional in the way you let it. As soon as you charge people money, they have expectations. And that can include it being your problem if they mess up the emergency key. That should be listed in your T&C as a deduction that can be made from the deposit.

I would not be renting to friends, it's asking for trouble.

Do you issue them with a proper contract / agreement with cancellation T&C?

If not, how can they claim on holiday insurance?

If you do have a proper contract and. T&C etc then are you complying with all the relevant rental standards? Is the property insured for holiday rentals??

I would stick to actual friends and family for an informal wear and tear contribution, or do proper rentals.

Also although 2/3 of going rate may seem like a big discount to you, people renting may not know going rate so not know they are getting a bargain.

If you do proceed prior to final agreement I'd send them a word document with your expectations. So state that you don't want the contact called out for minor things and list what those are. Ask them to contact you in the first instance. Tell them what your refund policy is. Let them know if they are expected to clean the property on departure .
Things may be obvious to you, but not to the renters. If I was staying somewhere hot and the aircon didn't work I'd expect someone to fix it. 2/3 of rental price effectively means you are avoiding admin and advertising costs through Airbnb or similar, it shouldn't mean that people get a second class holiday let.

I have to say that renting to people who are sort of friends sounds like the worst of both worlds. Real friends might take care of the property and behave properly if your friendship matters. Sort of friends may not feel they owe you that, but they will expect the kinds of standards from a normal holiday let, hence the issue about cancelling policies.

I agree with this, you've somehow mixed the two.
I think 'mates rates' only applies if you would otherwise be renting it out privately those weeks and regularly rent it out. If you don't, but friends want to use it then it's free/just utilities or cleaning fees.
You can't apply mates rates to soemthint if it's not already a business or way you make money

YANBU. We have a holiday home, here in the UK not abroad, and we only let very close friends stay. I couldn’t cope with demanding guests. But no YANBU, that’s what insurance is for. They’re getting a good deal.

I'd be backing out of this if not already confirmed. They're not even there yet and already they have unreasonable demands. YANBU.

It is a commercial rental, if you're taking any money at all. What if something really bad happens, and it's all off the record?

Actually the more I reflect I don't think the would be renters were being unreasonable. They simply wanted clarification of the cancellation policy- and if it was genuinely mates rates then you wouldn't be put out if someone cancelled at the last minute as you'd only be covering costs.
If you want to make money OP rent it professionally.

I think it's either a genuine favour for a friend, just covers costs, or it's a business. Anyone paying 2/3 plus travel etc has paid quite a bit for their holiday and they'll be expecting what they'd normally get, except with favours because you're "friends".

You'll end up falling out with the friends who introduced you.

Yanbu. If they hadn't booked it you'd have rented to someone else and made money. Also you make it too easy to cancel people will because its no cost to them.

I think you need to ensure you have a local contact to fix Aircon, replace light bulbs, fix or replace broken appliances. I think it's easier to go down commercial rent route as it all costs money. I'd be pissed off if I had to swelter because no air con. Ditto pissed off if promised washing machine broke. Aircon and washing machine are 2 of my non negotiable essentials in a hot country on holiday.

Make sure your house insurance covers renting and public liability. People who complain about batteries can also sue.
On your question - unless it’s immediate family I’d have a contract /ts and cs that the renter must sign that makes cancellation policy and the need to have holiday insurance clear. Easy to find a sample in the internet.

I used to have a holiday lets business in the algarve. We did everything by the book and friends and family knew that they paid the going rate and were treated the same as every other client.

I wouldn’t go near a half way house of mates rates/unofficial letting, there are too many ways for it to go wrong and risk bad feeling or even legal problems.

I'd back out with the 'lot' with unreasonable demands. Depending on the country concerned, I'd be looking for a plan B and how to sell the property, given that I forsee restrictions on second homes or higher taxation on them becoming a possibility.

Be very very careful. Friends and family is very different to acquaintances or friends of friends. What happens if one of these people fall down the stairs, gets an electric shock or any one of another hundred possible accidents that could happen to anyone at any time? What of they decide to sue you? They don't view you as friends or someone doing them a favour they see it as a cheap opportunity for a holiday and will still expect perfection and will have no compunction about suing you if things go wrong. I have seen this happen first hand. Receiving any sort of payment will if it comes to it be seen as a business contract and depending on the laws in the country where the property is you could find yourselves in a whole heap of trouble. For the small financial gain it is probably not worth the risk or possible rebound of it all goes tits up

We've got a holiday home in Wales and tbh renting to friends / wider family is a hell I will never repeat.

They expect the same standard as "proper" guests but all the perks of not being one. Then trying to resolve anything with them just caused shit all round. Never EVER again.

I have a house abroad which I currently rent out over summer months. I have it managed by an agency. That avoids any "mates" asking for favours - funnily enough the mates who ask are usually not mates, but acquaintances who think that they should be entitled to a cheap holiday. By using an agency I have a clear legal contract and market conditions in place. My place is always fully booked over the summer, but oddly, seldom with any of my "mates".

I think if you ask for money and people can’t go and there insurance doesn’t cover it because it’s a mates rates holiday type thing then it’s unfsir
also it doesn’t sound like you the right insurance so you shouldn’t be renting it out to anyone until you’ve resolved that issue as if someone had an accident you’d be liable

Absolutely agree with the pp who say don't do this. Friends of friends will want a professional service for a cheap price. They've already started muddying the water by asking for free cancellation. However if you are not a business and it is just for favours why would you charge them if they are not going, do you have people lined up? What would you be charging them for?

What happens if they hurt themselves in your home, burn themselves on the cooker, slip in the shower, leave the cooker on, start a fire, blow the electrics? Do you have all the safeguards in place, appropriate insurance and costs to cover?

What happens when there is a dispute about costs, about how much fuel they use or damage or noise that your neighbours complain about or vice versa?

Close friends paying for utilities and wear and tear is one thing, they know they are borrowing your home. Friends of Friends needs to be business or nothing.