To think wealthy people will leave Scotland?

[Juniperberries25]

..if the YES side win a referendum? Surely a lot of successful businesses and people who are wealthy/ comfortable/ have paid into a pension will not want to risk all their assets becoming worthless? Or am I missing something? Higher taxes, unknown currency, economic uncertainty, hard border, national security concerns etc

It would cost BILLIONS to set up new Government bodies (eg DVLA, Passport office, MI5, MI6, Amy Navy, RAF to name a few) so surely taxes will be much, much higher than rest of the UK?

Just to clarify I am NOT a fan of Boris but surely he will be long gone by the time Scotland actually became independent after YES vote (probably at least 10 years, just look at the BREXIT timeline).

Please don't flame me, I am just wondering what people think as I genuinely don't get how the benefits outweigh the risks.

If you only think, then your comments are pure supposition. Just as mine are anecdotal that my black and Asian friends see themselves as English and British. So your argument carries no more weight than mine.
Scottish people are British, too, by the way.

Oh yeah I could see that being an issue alright. I think the EU would probably jump at the chance of getting Scotland back though, if for no other reason than to annoy Westminster.

If we had a Happy Britannia, functioning well, trust in whoever is in Parliament then independence would never fly. But, Britain is a laughing stock of the world with a corrupt government. Any chance of rectifying a better life for yourself without having to upsticks and emigrate is worth considering.
And I ask again what’s the obsession with wealth? The wealthy cream their existence off poorer people. 150 years ago the poor of Scotland and Ireland emigrated because they were replaced by sheep or starved by a potato famine. Thankfully a democracy means you can change your situation by voting rather than emigrating.

EU membership is a massive red herring as there is no guarantee either way, there maybe murmurs about it, such as maybe eligible to join/application welcome but that doesn’t translate into membership, just ask Turkey.

Ukraine had wanted to join for years but it took an invasion for that to be expedited, not really a course we would want to take.

Even if we are accepted, this will be years away so we should not use this as the basis for our decision. We will only know the tens of our separation after it is voted in, everything else is pure speculation.

I have examined the issues. When the UK was in the European Union an independent Scotland wasn't worth it. Unlike the lies told at the time, Scotland could have joined the EU. But the disruption to the status quo was not going to be worth the outcome. So I voted no and was glad when no won.

With Brexit and the imminent deep recession, the landscape has changed considerably. Now the best bet for Scotland is an independent Scotland with an application to join the EU - will take 2-3 years. There will be some disruption, but it will be worth it economically to build a decent economy in Scotland.

Scottish industries like the seed potato industry were destroyed overnight by Brexit. The UK government did not care. There will need to be border arrangements between England and Scotland.

@LetitiaLeghorn I was talking about research into identity. There is a lot of research that does not back up your anecdotal statements.
But no matter.

Think Turkey is in the customs union though so presumably that wouldn’t be as hard to join relatively quickly. Also, nice handle- Selkies Are real

@Selkiesarereal Comparing Turkey and Scotland in terms of EU membership is a false comparison. The estimate is 2-3 years for Scotland to be approved for membership. But even if it takes 4 years, that is worth it economically.
There are other trade alliances we could join in the meantime.

@Ofcourseandyouknowit Exactly, politically for the EU it makes massive sense to welcome an independent Scotland back. That is really obvious.

I think increasingly independence is inevitable. Opting for the status quo makes sense under a decent economy and a well-run UK government. But that is not what we have got and it will get worse. It is alarming how little the government is doing and has done in terms of issues like food security, energy supply, price caps, etc. Instead burbling on about imperial measures and the crown on pint glasses. It is extreme incompetence.

@Limesaregreen The obsession with wealth is because of the narrative that we need wealthy people to create a strong economy. But many British businesses are failing because of a lack of poorer people who will take low-paid jobs. What we need is a balance. Too many rich people and ordinary people get priced out of their own homes.

The problem with trade agreements is that they require freedom of movement so would inevitably result in a hard border with England.

It would take years and years to join the EU even if accepted.

And there are still no answers on currency, a central bank, pensions, mortgages, nothing.

The top 1% of all UK earners pay 30% of all income tax collected. Income tax is the tax that brings in the most money. That’s why the wealthy matter. Someone needs to pay for Scotland’s considerable welfare state.

@antelopevalley Scottish industries like the seed potato industry were destroyed overnight by Brexit. The UK government did not care. There will need to be border arrangements between England and Scotland.

Wonder how many Scottish industries will be destroyed by the Scotland-England border post Indy. This is the problem with the Indy argument, all the Brexit problems will be magnified many times. Anyone who denies this is not being honest.

I agree. Reluctantly!
My heart says leave, my brain tells me stay.

Could Scotland not just use Stirling for the time being? Pretty common practice I would have thought, lots of countries base their currency off of another countries currency even when they are not politically affiliated anymore.

You will always have freedom of movement of people between Scotland and England, that’s not an issue- but trade will definitely be an issue to be resolved. It will be in both Scotland and the UK’s interest to hammer out something reasonable, probably free trade agreement in the short term but then it would be EU deal with UK. I think this would still be a net benefit for Scotland, England’s close, but Europe is close enough and massive.

"Could Scotland not just use Stirling for the time being?"
You had me confused for a moment.
Stirling is a city in Scotland, and was once the capital of the country.

I see you mean Sterling- a currency.

There are economic convergence criteria for joining the EU.

It’s not as simple as being nice and wanting to.

😂Sorry, I usually mix it up the other way around!

The UK fishing industry minister didn't even read the documents (so wasn't aware of what they were agreeing to) because she was busy helping with a nativity. I'm not kidding. She admitted to this.

The clusterf*ck that is Brexit didn't need to be so damaging. The problem is , when the ultra wealthy are in power, they don't have the same worries and impact from changes they make as the other 99.9999% of the population. A Chancellor who has £400m in the bank does not understand the importance of keeping energy or food bills as low as possible.

when the ultra wealthy are in power, they don't have the same worries and impact from changes they make as the other 99.9999% of the population
**
Dyson campaigned for Brexit.... then he moved the family's trust fund and his company's HQ abroad:
www.bnnbloomberg.ca/james-dyson-s-tech-firm-moves-1-8-billion-to-his-family-office-1.1673764
I think he's since moved his residency back but not the $$$.

This is utter bullshit simply not true.

Rejoining the EU would be a relatively straightforward procedure as Scotland already adheres to UK regulations as it only recently left the EU.

Certainly in comparison to the still great unknown that is Brexit.

@antelopevalley I assume that this is in writing from the EU as otherwise it is supposition.

Also Warburton- wanted to leave the EU. Now wants immigration laws relaxed as can't get workers.

There will be a large impact. I personally would hate to have to use euros. I think it will damage the hospitality and tourism sector. And what will happen with the healthcare? Would it go like the south of Ireland?