To think wealthy people will leave Scotland?

[Juniperberries25]

..if the YES side win a referendum? Surely a lot of successful businesses and people who are wealthy/ comfortable/ have paid into a pension will not want to risk all their assets becoming worthless? Or am I missing something? Higher taxes, unknown currency, economic uncertainty, hard border, national security concerns etc

It would cost BILLIONS to set up new Government bodies (eg DVLA, Passport office, MI5, MI6, Amy Navy, RAF to name a few) so surely taxes will be much, much higher than rest of the UK?

Just to clarify I am NOT a fan of Boris but surely he will be long gone by the time Scotland actually became independent after YES vote (probably at least 10 years, just look at the BREXIT timeline).

Please don't flame me, I am just wondering what people think as I genuinely don't get how the benefits outweigh the risks.

I can tell you, my family in Ireland are very concerned about it. The arrogance and ignorance of people on the mainland when it comes to Irish issues never fails to astonish.

Billions have gone from the Westminster government in Covid fraud which have nothing to do with the Scottish government. I don’t know what you are alleging but am not aware of any particular issues with funds allocated to Scotland for Covid. I don’t think randoms on mn though are going to be able to give details of government spending.

This link you posted alleged that £2m of the school budget was used to pay for police in schools. That’s not really a big deal nor any type of wrongdoing.

Turkey can dream all they want but they're unlikely to ever join the EU as it has a border with Iran. If they were in the EU, the EU would border Iran... The EU is unlikely to ever buy that potential war and headache! Iran's not a nice neighbour to have and, let's face it, neither is Turkey. Its politians don't share the same principles as Europeans when it comes to many things but democracy and womens' rights is enough to stop them from being accepted. It's fine and dandy to go on holiday but I don't know many who would want to live there, in fact I know many who, having lived there, would never want to go back.

There is something really wrong with a party that forbids it members to disagree with leadership. Who on earth would sign up to something like that unless the blinkers were fully in place?
The SNP and their policies are like the emporer’s new clothes. People can see it’s not quite right but those who should challenge are unable to do so.

@Ofcourseandyouknowit MN is very anti SNP. Not based on facts, just insults like Bravehearts and nationalism.

@Pluvia I know the impact Brexit has had. It will lead to a deep recession in the UK. It makes it very unattractive to have Head Offices in the UK for international financial companies. So that ship has already sailed. But what I was replying to was the idea that companies who had their Head offices in Scotland, would move out if Scotland became independent. Now with Brexit there is no financial reason to do that.

I don’t think there was as much of an issue as some feared although some jobs have moved. At the moment though the regulation between the EU and UK is still aligned. If things change then more jobs will go.

I think if Scotland rejoins the EU as they plan, this will be a great opportunity to take fs jobs from London.

@LetitiaLeghorn The EU has never said it would enthusiastically welcome an application for membership from Turkey.
In fact the only thing the EU said was that Turkey was welcome to apply for membership.
They said they would enthusiastically welcome an application from an independent Scotland. And politically it would be very attractive for the EU.

When it comes with the border with England there are two different scenarios. If Scotland is out with the EU then the border is whatever is agreed with England. If Scotland is in the EU there would have to be a hard border. Being in the single market means that all EU countries have the same standards of goods. You buy a ham sandwich from France and the pig that produced the ham lived to certain welfare standards, you buy a car seat from the continent and it will have had the necessary safety checks etc. The UK has left the SM as it doesn’t want these standards - red tape. As a result the EU wants to check everything that goes into the EU in detail - they don’t want dodgy UK chlorinated chicken etc in the EU.

If Scotland was in the EU there would have to be a hard border between the UK and Scotland for those checks to take place. And believe me (I work in the area) a hard border is a total nightmare. It makes importigg no / exporting anything a total pain in the backside. Takes more time and money.

what about N Ireland / Ireland, why can’t we be like that? Well there is a v specific arrangement to avoid a hard border in N Ireland / Ireland in order to protect the peace process. Goods going into N Ireland are checked for EU standards in the N sea. The EU is unlikely to grant Indy Scotland such an exemption. So if Scotland ever met the criteria to join the EU (and many question whether it will meet the economic requirement) there will be a hard border with England. If not, there doesn’t have to be.

I don’t agree with a lot of the above. However,
Ultimately the attitude to Turkey and Scotland in the EU is completely different. Scotland has already been an EU member and is a prosperous sophisticated economy. It’s very likely it can rejoin whereas the EU member states are not in favour of Turkey joining.

@antelopevalley
MN does appear to be very anti-SNP. I assume this is largely down to the fact that the mainstream media in the UK are also extremely anti-SNP and do not shy away from the “subsidy junkie” myth, however I’ve noticed a tone of condescension towards Scotland and the Scots in general across a number of threads down the years which I’ve always put down to the South East / Home Counties sense of exceptionalism and that anywhere that’s north of the Watford Gap is somehow lesser than where they live.

@Ofcourseandyouknowit That’s right …. dismiss it without a discussion because it’s written by the Conservatives and Unionists…. How can we get the best for Scotland if people are not prepared to admit the failings of the Scottish Government… seems that SNP supporters are never prepared to criticise and analyse what Nicola Sturgeon has done. … this could be to the detriment of us all if we cannot admit that there have been serious mistakes made.

The Bank of England and the FCA are still respected international institutions. Would you rather invest in a bank being backed by the BoE and a company being assessed by the FCA, or a bank or company with Scottish institutions set up from nothing? These are the questions investors will ask. Certain activities had to leave London post Brexit due to regulatory issues but the City of London is still a massive global hub. Companies are not going to move from there to an Independent Scotland..

Life expectancy in Scotland is 77.2 here - the lowest in the UK
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandlifeexpectancies/bulletins/lifeexpectancyforlocalareasoftheuk/between2001to2003and2017to2019

Is the border between Scotland and NI “a nightmare” then? Surely by your claims above it must be. Same with the uk EU border.

Is it not just that there are just a lot of educated middle class mumsnetters who can see past SNP spin.

Yes of course the UK EU border is a nightmare. It always was going to be. Just Boris lied about it.

@StoneofDestiny @antelopevalley ??

answers?

Other than “there will be a paper somewhere”

And believe me, as someone who was a child in the 70s I’m extremely concerned about the Irish border

Exactly

The N Ireland economy is booming currently as it has no border to the EU and the UK will still try to trade with it. But the Stormont Assembly has collapsed as the DUP don’t like the hard border in the North Sea as it makes N Ireland seem less British. Boris is egging the DUP on as he wants the EU to think the hard border in the N sea is threatening the N Irish peace process and get rid of it forcing the EU to take our substandard goods unchecked. He really is a total and utter arsehole.

The Scottish institutions aren’t set up “from nothing”. Scotland has a long tradition of financial services and there is already significant expertise in this area in Edinburgh.

The FCA is about a decade old. The regulatory prowess of its predecessor and the BOE had many issues-eg failure of several large banks, insurance and pension companies.

countries like Ireland and Norway are small but have robust financial services industries. There is absolutely no reason to think Scotland couldn’t do that too. In fact given the history and skills base in Scotland it’s very likely.

The rhetoric about a second referendum from politicians has barely started and this thread has moved like lightening with very strong views on both sides.
God knows what the tension will be like by the time the referendum actually comes round (if it comes round which it shouldn't as we've had the once in a life time vote).

Lol yeah that’ll be it

@JemimaPiddleDick I know what you mean about the condescension. As if we are all a bit stupid.

It's not about not being able to seeing past the SNP spin, I think a lot of Brits see Scotland as the poor brother cousin of the UK instead of an equal brother of England. They look at Scotland as the other EU, before $$ was going to Portugal and Greece, now it's going to Scotland. What's next? Keep the wealthy Scots and send the rest to the live in the islands? Out of sight, out of mind hey!

countries like Ireland and Norway are small but have robust financial services industries.

Norway has a multi million /billion/ trillion stash of savings from the North Sea Gas and Oil industries.
Ireland is probably not going to 'boom' as it did thanks to huge past EU subsidies which I expect will reduce greatly due to the present financial problems.