To think wealthy people will leave Scotland?

[Juniperberries25]

..if the YES side win a referendum? Surely a lot of successful businesses and people who are wealthy/ comfortable/ have paid into a pension will not want to risk all their assets becoming worthless? Or am I missing something? Higher taxes, unknown currency, economic uncertainty, hard border, national security concerns etc

It would cost BILLIONS to set up new Government bodies (eg DVLA, Passport office, MI5, MI6, Amy Navy, RAF to name a few) so surely taxes will be much, much higher than rest of the UK?

Just to clarify I am NOT a fan of Boris but surely he will be long gone by the time Scotland actually became independent after YES vote (probably at least 10 years, just look at the BREXIT timeline).

Please don't flame me, I am just wondering what people think as I genuinely don't get how the benefits outweigh the risks.

@Andouillette I think we have to be sensible as to where we go for information. That goes for everything and anything in life...

Yeah, I definitely think it would be a bit lower, though my impression in Scotland was Labour had quite a bit of bridge-building to do because they are seen as quite close to the conservatives still (I think). I reckon if there was proportional representation for the UK instead of first-past-the-post that would probably up support for staying in the UK as well because there would be better representation for all the nations. Starmer would want to get a move on if that’s going to happen though- if he can’t beat this conservative government- then it starts to look like conservative rule as far as the eye can see!

I think comments like this really demonstrate how there has to be a sensible display of facts and figures to show the truth of what happens in the uk and Scottish economies. Too much of the Brexit vote was fear and empty promises and peoole were taken in. Surely we should learn from that and deal with the practicalities of independence in a much more honest way.

How much longer there will be freedom of movement across the ROI/NI border remains to be seen.

Imo, Johnson doesn't give a shit about Ireland and regards Brexit as far more important.

Oh dear! I just assumed they would be better behaved around an actual Scottish person! it’s pretty surprising isn’t it? Especially somewhere like London, you expect them to be properly PC and well-informed about the world because it’s such a melting pot -but not so much when it comes to Scots for some reason (although they do also make fun of English people from the North as well a bit so maybe it’s just because they feel entitled because they see it as the same country?)

Denmark — surprisingly racist and intolerant of difference, really expensive to live and work there, highly socially conformist. Manages somehow to persuade the world that it's progressive but is actually very conservative. Basic taxes (national and local) anywhere between 30-40%. Tax on share income over £5,800-ish is 42%. I can't see many Scots wanting to take that on. Draconian rules about vehicles and energy usage.
Finland — basic rate of tax was 40% when I worked there in the noughties but is now down to 35%.
Norway — special case because of oil and its sovereign wealth fund.

..if the YES side win a referendum? Surely a lot of successful businesses and people who are wealthy/ comfortable/ have paid into a pension will not want to risk all their assets becoming worthless? Or am I missing something? Higher taxes, unknown currency, economic uncertainty, hard border, national security concerns etc

Are you missing something?

Yes. Brexit is already guaranteed to eventually deliver all of the above.

UK is on track to be the worst performer of the G7 nations with its inflation higher than every other G7 member
www.ft.com/content/4ac7e454-5a0c-4094-90af-fb54404d45a0

The 'good news' is Boris Johnson and Liz Truss are determined to bring us into a trade war. It will be devastating for the UK economy but it will give Boris and Liz the opportunity to blame everyone else for the UK's misfortune.

@Pluvia There are also small nations with lower levels of tax than Scotland.
Different countries have their own pros and cons. But the UK hardly seems attractive heading as it is into a deep recession.

www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19716393.actually-happened-scotlands-trillions-north-sea-oil-boom/

Norway is not a 'special case'. Scotland and Norway have produced nearly the exact same amounts of oil over the last four decades.

Norway- £1.3 trillion fund.
Scotland - £0.

We have also lost billions of revenue due to the UK Government 's complete clusterf*ck approach.

Makes me sick.

How taxes are used in Denmark is very different to what we're accustomed to. Services are subsidized, the wrap-around welfare/social care system is streets ahead of the UK, university is free (and many/most students also subsidized, not sure about all) and so on. Most Danes are happy with the high level of taxation, in my experience.

What a thought?!

NS does not have the money to create the infrastructure required for independence for a start!

the country has no cash reserves and no credit status with any bank let alone having its own bank!

Scotland receives much more from Westminster than Westminster generates from being in this relationship.

it’s interesting how she wants to leave the U.K. but wants to remain in Europe despite membership costing a lot of €€€€€

I’m already concerned about the level of secrecy which goes on within SG. The refusal to be open and honest about finances and where money goes leads a me to conclude one of 2 things :
they are incompetent or
they are hiding something eg secretly squirrelling money away so there can be a big spendfest later.
Sadly looking at the track record I think the former is true and it doesn’t bode well for the future.

I thought I'd been clear and detailed why just turning an arm of an entity into a whole entity isn't easy nor a guarantee of success.

It's not about printing the passports. That's why I made a joke about just buying more office equipment. Anyone can print the flipping passports. It's about the security and information that the HO keep to allow a passport to be awarded and monitored. That's the infrastructure and expertise that scotland just doesn't have and it takes a long time to put that together.

Anti-English feeling in Northumberland? Northumberland is in England, we don’t have bad feelings about ourselves

I assume by English, they meant "southern English". Because only people from the south of England buy second homes (apparently).

Isn't it interesting how the oil's in Scotland but it doesn't have the money to show for it? It sounds like this $$ went to Westminster and then was redistributed and Scotland got some back. Can anyone shed some light on this? How much revenue's come from oil in past years (and please name your source!).

So because it is a bit difficult Scotland should just vote no and accept heading into a deep recession where high streets, businesses and the economy will be decimated for many years?
It took Scotland about 20 years to climb out of the damage done by Thatcher's policies.
Personally I am not willing to right off my children's future in that way.

I remember the father of a German exchange partner saying this to me in relation to Gibraltar - as in, the Spanish should get a vote too. Hmmmm I don't think so somehow.

However, the UK is a slightly different issue I agree. If Scotland voted to become independent, they'd effectively be dismantling the UK. The UK was Great Britain and Ireland. The Republic went 100 years ago. If Scotland also left, there wouldn't be much of a UK left. It would really be the Confederation of England, Wales and Northern Ireland. And who's to say Northern Ireland would want to stay in such Confederation? Or that Wales might want the option to join forces with Scotland? There are so many permutations, so maybe everyone should get a say.

Although I suspect the head-banging little Englanders would vote for Scotland to leave.

@riesenrad Northumberland was traditionally full of towns and villages that were relatively poor. These are the places full of second homeowners and holiday homeowners. And yes most appear to be from the South of England. Part of my family lived there renting. The whole family have been driven out as a result. Some places have zero residents left.
How do you think families feel driven out of where they were born and brought up only to see those villages having zero actual residents? It is awful.
But rich people now have a nice house by the sea to visit or rent out to holidaymakers.

You talk like it's just the UK that is being hit by rising prices. All countries are heading for a recession, including the US and China. Europe being particularly hard hit because of Ukraine. Of course you might not believe me but would you believe the World Bank?

“For many countries, recession will be hard to avoid,” David Malpass, the World Bank’s president said in a statement, warning that a period of stagflation like what was witnessed in the 1970s is certainly possible.
“The war in Ukraine, lockdowns in China, supply-chain disruptions, and the risk of stagflation are hammering growth,” Malpass said.

@riesenrad I agree that if English people could vote it would be a clear yes for Scottish independence. There is a lot of anti-Scottish feeling.

I’m not sure where the idea that Scotland alone will buck the trend comes from

If they really want to get it right for the next generation at least go on more than a feeling - maybe certain issues below (eg drugs) will clear up maybe they’ll get worse, but you’d want it to be more than an idea of England is to blame before deciding that for them

@LetitiaLeghorn Honestly I am not stupid I know those issues are raising prices everywhere. But the UK is going to be hit especially hard because of Brexit. China is also expected to suffer particularly badly.
But although food prices have risen in Europe due to Ukraine, the prospect of a recession is thought to be receeding.
I read the Financial Times regularly and there were concerns about a European-wide recession earlier in the year, but the latest estimates appear to be more optimistic.
In the UK though everyone accepts a recession is coming, the only disagreement is how deep it will be.l

I doubt it because there’s little difference between the two