To ask for help with dd12, I’m at the end of my tether!

[Frustratedcamel]

Background….My dd 12 started senior school in September, she was identified as having SEN in year 2, but nothing definite, had a bit of extra help in some classes.
Her difficulties have got worse over the years and in year 5/6, she was referred to CAMHS, followed by them thinking she may have ASD, so we have been referred to CYPS and on a waitlist for a neurodevelopmental assessment (been about 9 months now, so possibly another 9 month wait).

She has developed OCD, she has self harmed, she has terrible mood swings (which I know are also part of teenage hormones), the list goes on.

The trouble at the moment, is that she keeps getting into trouble at school….she attends a zero tolerance academy that use a points system to manage bad behaviour. She is almost constantly getting detentions, most for valid reasons, some I think are a bit harsh but that’s not my call.

As she is under their SEN, teachers are aware of her traits and some are excellent at managing her. A lot of her behaviour comes from her routine being disrupted, or her having no filter when she talks and can come across as defensive or rude….sometimes she can display poor judgement and just doesn’t think things through. I do talk to her about this and have tried so many things to help improve her behaviour at school, but it seems the more negative points she gets there, the worse she is.

I am so stuck as to what to do to help her improve her behaviour, I feel like it’s dominating our lives at the moment, weekly calls from school, detentions most days after school.

Does anyone have any experience of this that may be able to offer advice?

Is this the right school for her? Sounds like she isn't coping. My dd is also in year 7. When she started there was a girl in her class who sounds very similar to your dd, she had some SN, not sure what exactly. Kept getting in trouble etc After a few weeks her parents pulled her out and sent her somewhere else that met her needs better.
Have you spoken to her form tutor/pastoral team to see what help they can offer? Is she very unhappy at school? Something needs to change.

There are other children there with ASD and they have a SEN department that liaises with teachers, but it is a mainstream school.

I have been assured that a mainstream school is fine for her and believe it or not she isn’t one of the worst behaved children…..the type of stuff she gets in trouble for are things like talking, answering back, not doing enough work, rudeness etc. (which I’m mortified about anyway), but there are a lot more challenging children.

She does see the SEN team and they try to advocate for her, but I just don’t feel like anything is working.

Does she has a Individual Educational Plan in place so all members of staff know of strategies to help her, particularly with her emotions?

If not, ask to see SENCO to discuss. If yes, ask for a review as it doesn't sound like she is getting the support she needs. And ask yourself honestly, is this the right school for you daughter - can they meet her needs?

www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/education/extra-help-at-school/northern-ireland/individual-education-plans

There might be a different mainstream school that isn’t so tough on behaviour, which would suit her better?

Thankyou for your replies…I think I need to look more in to the IEP, I know that she has something that was circulated to teachers, but I’ve not seen it. I think it’s quite basic stuff, such as not to approach her in front of people, but to check her understanding privately if you see what I mean?
she also has a pass that she can use if she feels overwhelmed but that’s not always allowed to be used if she’s done something wrong.

What gave school said? Surely they should be offering ideas? Smaller classes maybe? Extra TA support?

I’ve literally just had yet another detention message as we speak….she now has had one every day this week and almost every day for next week, it’s just getting ridiculous now.
I’m going to phone the school and ask for a meeting to see if they can think of anything because this just isn’t working.

I’m really at a loss now, she’s been issued 3 further detentions since I last posted, 2 of which are on the same day, at the same time, but in different classes…so I don’t know how they expect her to attend both!

I have left a message 2 days ago for SEN to contact me, another message for one of the year heads and this follows an email I sent on 24th May to say I thought it would be best to have a meeting regarding her behaviour / learning support….I’ve heard nothing, so I’m really not sure where to go now.
Someone from SENDIASS was supposed to call me today, they haven’t. I just don’t know where to turn.

What made you pick this school? I think I'd look at alternative (mainstream) schools that have a greater flexibility to meet individual needs.

But short term, you need to come up with a solution for all the detentions.
Can you pick out one or 2 main reasons for the behaviour points she is receiving, and think of ways to give her a second chance for those things written into the IEP. You absolutly need to be getting school to respond to you. Time to be the annoying parent and shout up for your daughter.

Your poor daughter, and you. It sounds like the negative reinforcement at the school isn’t working for her or them.
An IEP sounds good but it seems like you’ll have to push to get one.
i would want to see the advice circulated to the teachers.
is your DD reaching expected outcomes? If so then school could be less likely to be supportive (even if she has greater potential).
Would a positive reinforcement plan help? Even if it’s yours, eg no more than x detentions in a week/fortnight means a reward.
Sounds like she needs strategies to support her to delay reactions, a mantra maybe. Say nothing and I earn a reward.
SENDIASS should offer support and it could just be someone is I’ll and contact will be made very soon.
It is hard but try and praise your daughter whenever you can to boost her self esteem as she’s probably feeling really fed up.

A zero tolerance academy sounds like hell, can I respectfully suggest that this is not the right school for any child? A fearful environment is not communicating safety to children (who let's remember are powerless and dependent on the adults around them) in any way shape or form. It sounds like the environment is not working for your daughter but at 12 she will have limited ways of articulating this. What are the detentions actually achieving but to make her feel a deep sense of not being good enough. "her behaviour" is not the problem here. I mean, who does school actually benefit these days, for most children it is somewhere they learn to survive; thriving is the exception not the rule. It might be helpful to adjust certain perceptions regarding thinking things through and poor judgment. Your daughter wil not have a fully developed pre-frontal cortex, it does not finish developing until around the age of 26, so her capacity to think, weigh choices, form intentions, measure consequence is going to be limited anyway, through no fault of her own. This is why teenagers do risky things, they lack the capacity to judge the consequences of their actions. I would be looking to remove her from the school and I wouldn't be taking any notice whatsoever of their punitive and ott discipline techniques; they lack flexibility, insight and fail to honour the uniquenss of your daughter. No wonder she is struggling. I hope you can get some support with this as parents can feel horribly judged when someone 'tells' us that our children are failing. Best of luck, sadly she is not alone.

Unfortunately we had no choice with regards to the school, we were turned down for the other 2 as we were out of the catchment area and they were over subscribed.
She struggles with some lessons, mainly maths, but is at expected levels with most I think. I think the main problem is the way she communicates and expresses herself, she tends to panic and rather than calmly explain something to a teacher who is challenging her, she comes across as being rude.
When I question her, she’ll say she doesn’t realise until afterwards and on reflection, that she was being so rude or challenging. Once she reflects, she does show remorse and it is genuine (unless she thinks she is in the right and it escalated because the teacher was being unfair).
We have tried positive reinforcement at home, it wasn’t really that successful….the school she goes to issues the P points for good and C points for bad, very rarely does she get more P points than C’s anymore.
Her behaviour is escalating now and it seems to be on a downward spiral.
I know I’ll struggle to get her to go now and as she is just under 90% attendance, that’s also not good.
I am trying to think of what to include in an email so I cover all of the points I want to raise / need help with….I’ve no idea where to start.
They are aware she is waiting for a diagnosis but this doesn’t seem to help where some teachers are concerned.

Your daughter's school (or is it a boot camp) is forcing her into a box into which she is never going to fit. Check out notfineinschool.co.uk, they will be able to offer advice and support.

Under The Equality Act (2010) the school have to make alterations to policy and practice if your child shows characteristics of one of the protected characteristics. Don't wait for a diagnosis, go in there now and insist that they comply with this act. Make them do more for her- her behaviour is communicating a need. I work in this area- PM me if you need more support

Thankyou @CHIRIBAYA , I will have a look at this website.

Please, this ^. Panicking and problems with tone are classic asd and your poor dd doesn't need an endless cycle of punishment, she needs support. And an EHCP, which you can apply for.

Seriously, this can't wait. She's not coping now and her mh and self esteem is being trashed.

I wonder about schools like this. Is the behaviour better than schools who don’t implement such strict measures? Or do constant detentions (or the threat of them) only work on children who generally behave anyway? The ones who struggle a bit more- impulse control, poor concentration, struggle in social situations for example- what about them? I doubt you and your daughter are the only ones who are at a loss. I imagine getting at least one detention a day is giving your daughter the impression of “what’s the actual point even trying?” The never ending stream of detentions doesn’t seem to have been a deterrent, even when she tries to explain herself (from what she’s told you) she’s still getting them. Honestly, it seems like laziness from a behaviour management point of view- “bosh! There’s a detention. Problem dealt with”. When the problem is still ongoing.

Thankyou @JanetandJohn500 . I think my problem is that this is all new to me too, so I don’t know what to expect from the school or what they expect from me and dd.
She has had involvement with SEN for quite a few years now, so when she transitioned, they spoke with me and wrote sort of a list of things that may help to circulate to her teachers, but I think this is way more complicated now.

Thankyou @Porcupineintherough, this may sound a bit thick but how would I go about getting an EHCP?

@YouCantSpellAmericaWithoutErica, you have it spot on! I have wondered about this too, I don’t think the threat of punishment can help some children.
I think despite the school having pastoral care / SEN, maybe they just don’t have the resources for all of the teachers to gain an understanding of these issues and dd just can’t fit in with their expectations.

@Frustratedcamel you can just download the form (I think) and fill it in but personally I'd contact someone like ipsea for help and support. Or ask on the SEN boards here. The important thing is you don't have to go via the school (although a good school wod be proactive in applying on your dd's behalf).

Move her.

My ds started at an academy who thought their rules mattered more than any adjustments and my son didn't make it to the end of year 7 before he'd reached breaking point.

Moved to another secondary. They changed him.

No child (sen or not) should have to be in an environment where you're constantly anxious about making human mistakes.

I've also heard SOS!SEN are good but not personally had anything to do w them.

@itsgettingweird, I’m so glad that moving school helped your DS. I’ve spoken with her about the possibility but she’s absolutely distraught at the idea as she’s made a good friend there (this is usually difficult for her) and does like some of the teachers (that are really good with her).

Thankyou @Porcupineintherough , I will check out their website too.