To ask for help with dd12, I’m at the end of my tether!

[Frustratedcamel]

Background….My dd 12 started senior school in September, she was identified as having SEN in year 2, but nothing definite, had a bit of extra help in some classes.
Her difficulties have got worse over the years and in year 5/6, she was referred to CAMHS, followed by them thinking she may have ASD, so we have been referred to CYPS and on a waitlist for a neurodevelopmental assessment (been about 9 months now, so possibly another 9 month wait).

She has developed OCD, she has self harmed, she has terrible mood swings (which I know are also part of teenage hormones), the list goes on.

The trouble at the moment, is that she keeps getting into trouble at school….she attends a zero tolerance academy that use a points system to manage bad behaviour. She is almost constantly getting detentions, most for valid reasons, some I think are a bit harsh but that’s not my call.

As she is under their SEN, teachers are aware of her traits and some are excellent at managing her. A lot of her behaviour comes from her routine being disrupted, or her having no filter when she talks and can come across as defensive or rude….sometimes she can display poor judgement and just doesn’t think things through. I do talk to her about this and have tried so many things to help improve her behaviour at school, but it seems the more negative points she gets there, the worse she is.

I am so stuck as to what to do to help her improve her behaviour, I feel like it’s dominating our lives at the moment, weekly calls from school, detentions most days after school.

Does anyone have any experience of this that may be able to offer advice?

I will be blunt.

I feel by not being so I'm failing someone from hearing the truth and you could end up where I did - with a child trying to end their own life.

You have a school who by term 3 are still using punishment as a learning tool. It won't work. If she could change - knew how to change - she would have by now.

She will only get more and more anxious as they punish her more and more for skills she doesn't have. The anxiety will increase the behaviour.

If this school was ever going to be any good for her they'd have done something supportive by now.

They aren't going to help. They will just damage your dd more.

You need to tell her she's moving and why. You are her parent and you need to do what's best for her. Because the school won't. Ever.

@itsgettingweird, I appreciate it Thankyou and I’m so sorry to hear what you’ve had to go through. You’re right, I need to make some quick decisions.

It might be worth reposting this / asking MN to move it to SEN children as you'll get more people with similar experiences who might be able to offer help.

Sounds really difficult OP

That school sounds horrendous. In the short term can you refuse the detentions?

Thankyou @BlackAndPinkNose , I will ask.

@Pumperthepumper, I don’t think I can refuse them…maybe I can ask if they can space them out, but if she gets more there won’t be anywhere to put them.

Found you! So much of this resonates with me. My DD will also be rude/answer back but will say she doesn't know she is coming across as rude.

I have also wondered if DD is autistic. She is slightly different, that's for sure, really really struggles to communicate herself.

How is your DD self harming?

I agree with others that the detentions etc don't work. I have become less stressed by it all, she often goes into inclusion etc. At parent's evening most of the teachers said they expect her to settle by year 11!!!

So she hasn't had her assessment?

Are you in a position to go private? I say this because DD13 does have ASD but mainly ADHD which is harder to recognise in girls and medication has helped her enormously.

The other thing is large class sizes and noise can be exhausting for them. Is it the right school? The school is failing her, I can't believe they think using detention for her is going to change anything.

Lastly I'm really sorry, it's so stressful for both her and you. Absolute sympathy here as we've been through the ringer with this too.

If this is a zero tolerance school, move her before they permanently exclude her. They will be looking for any excuse to get rid because she doesn't fit their ethos. Then the shit really will hit the fan in terms of her behaviour. Acadamies are a nightmare for getting rid of kids that don't fit in, other students having worse behaviour does not guarantee your daughter is safe unfortunately.

Would reiterate what some have said i.e.

Go private with assessment if possible.

ALSO - time to complain to the governors if you are not moving her
quote Equality and Diversity Act 2010 - ask for IMMEDIATE meeting as it is an emergency (she is suffering)
Send letter by email and by Special Delivery so they can't argue they haven't received it.

Things that will help you cope

Contact the parents helpline of YOUNG MINDS to hash it through

Get yourself a book called 'How to cope when your child can't'

Similar stories in there.

PLUS - don't blame yourself - sounds like a shit show on behalf of the existing school

But, if you rise to your tallest height you can CHANGE IT

FIERCE SELF AND OTHER COMPASSION - FIERCE MOMMA BEAR

YOU CAN DO THIS

Just move her. Apply for an educational health care plan and just move her. The type of school that your DD is in does no justice for SEN children. Apply to a small nurturing private school and move on.

She is 12. The longer you keep her in a type of setting like that, she would eventually end up with mental health difficulties at post 16. You are the parent. You move her. Change is hard for everyone but think about her long term potential and happiness. I work with SEN kids and in secondary schools, the Sen kids are basically in a sinking ship and the parents make all sorts of excuses to not move their child. Please wake up and don't he like those parents.

Thank you so much everyone for your replies, you are all making a lot of sense to me and I know I need to look in to another school now. There aren’t many round here that I would like her to go to, but i probably don’t know of all of them, the only ones I know of have an awful reputation (I’ve seen first hand one of them).

I will try and answer questions….

@WinoLino When she does it (not as often anymore thankfully), she uses anything she can find to cut her arms and hands (tweezers, compass, even staples from a stapler) She has also used a lighter to burn herself and sometimes hits herself in the head (like with a hairbrush) if she’s upset or angry).

@jeaux90 She still hasn’t been assessed, we’ve been on the waitlist since October last year…unfortunately, I’m not in a position to go private.

Things went from bad to worse last week with countless detentions and then she was excluded for 1 day. I was called in and had a meeting with the school…SEN have done an urgent referral for a educational psychologist, I hope this happens really soon.

I feel so awful for her, one girl that she sometimes hangs round with after school has said her parents don’t want her mixing with my dd anymore as she’s a bad influence….I understand where they’re coming from, but not a nice thing to hear and I don’t know them well enough to tell them the full story (I’m not sure that would make any difference anyway).

she also has a pass that she can use if she feels overwhelmed but that’s not always allowed to be used if she’s done something wrong

This really jumped out at me from your opening post and it's complete dogshit from the school. Obviously she's more likely to misbehave if she's overwhelmed and instead of helping her, they take away the thing she needs to calm herself. This is a school that is only paying lip service to her needs. She absolutely needs to go to a school with good SEN support and pastoral care before she ends up really internalising the message that she's 'bad'.

Oh gosh I've just seen your reply back to me. Horrendous. I'm really shocked they are dealing with her via exclusion on top of the detentions. It beggars belief and feels so punitive and cruel, almost like they want you to move schools.

I'm sorry private assessment isn't an option, I really hope you get her assessment soon. If she gets to see the educational psychologist is this one intrinsically tied to the school? Is everything going to be framed around that or her?

My DD13 is better now she has medication for her ADHD on school days, she is able to cope with her ASD in the smaller class sizes at her school. She still has to decompress after, but not as overwhelmed as she was.

I'm a member of a local support group where parents meet once a month online to discuss these, also has a Facebook group. Is there anything similar in your area?

Start the EHCP process with the assistance of SENDIASS. If you get an EHCP, you can choose a new school for your child and, if the LA agree that it is the nearest suitable school for your child then you will get transport assistance so it can be a school out if catchment.

Your child isn't badly behaved, they have SEN.

We had it written into my child's plan that they couldn't have sanctions for behaviour related to their SEN.

That school sounds like the worst place for your child.

I kept my daughter at a primary school that was failing her because she had friends there. I now regret that massively.

That scho broke my daughter. Several years later she is still traumatised by the way that they treated her. She is on anti depressants and has weekly therapy but the road to recovery will take years.

They have damaged her self esteem so badly. Please don't let this school do that to your daughter. The continual punishments for behaviour related to her SEN will break her. You can see that's happening now with the self harming. Those teachers don't understand SEN.

And seriously consider some ial provision. My child is in a special school even though they are academically able. It's the emotional support there and their understanding of the adjustments that need to be made that make it stand head and shoulders above any mainstream school.

Consider special provision...

Apply for ehcp needs assessment, ipsea have a model letter www.ipsea.org.uk/making-a-request-for-an-ehc-needs-assessment

you may initially be turned down as school haven’t done enough but the exclusion and being on asd pathway are enough to meet the legal criteria for assessment which is “may have sen”

keep a daily diary for evidence.
keep records of all the detentions.
was the exclusion an official exclusion where you got paperwork? You should, have been offered a reintegration meeting when she went back.

it does sound like the school are trying to manage her out. I know other posters have said about moving schools but one thing I always knew with my son was that I absolutely was not going to be pushed into moving him until I was sure about the new placement and that it would meet needs, otherwise it’s just out of the frying pan into the fire and two failed placements could be worse for mental health.

ipsea have a helpline but unless you strike lucky it’s virtually impossible to get an appointment. National autistic society also have an education rights helpline which is good. Are there any local autism groups near to you? I would suggest joining as likely to be full of parents in similar situations so good for support as well as the parents know knowing the local situation and schools well.

School sound ridiculous I never understand these kinds of measures for kids who need the extra support. I'd move her too