to think the whole idea of retirement is going to become unrealistic

[worksmartandfast]

I am sad writing this as I think it is a truely nice idea that people get to take some time out to enjoy life but my practical head says it can't continue. When the age was set to retire that was a policy made for a totally different era, people started work at 15 and died at 65 in general society has completely changed since then. It was never envisaged that education would last so long for children/young people it is really an accident of history that for the last decades it has been possible to effectively stop working in their early 60s/late 50s despite being perfectly capable adults and spend potentially 15/20 years living a life of pure leisure. While I'm sure this idea will be unpopular in reality I can't see how in a world with ever better medical care increasing life expentancy it can be expected that it will be possible for it to be the norm that most people can spend the final quater of their lives retired even if they are perfectly able to work. Aibu?

My dad was a trucker for most of his life....apart from 7 years in the army where he got his licence. By the time he retired he had hip and knee problems which reduced his ability to react quickly to situations. The medicals just checked his eyesight, blood pressure heart etc, but never his reaction times. It's a very common problem amongst those that spend most of their adult working life behind a wheel and/or clambering up into a trailer.

We managed to re frame it. We took our work.pensions at 55 58 ( which meant reduced ,but started early) we then work in our non stressful job s to supplement our income until.state pension but will.probably still.need some work. This means we feel semi retired as normal.jobs for us are easier than our challenging careers.( physical but not stressful) and we have also got a smaller house, reduced our outgoings, eat v simply. So its a bit like the poster who.said old idea of rerirement may be goñe but to replace with part time work ongoing which i think they do in some.cultures.

@AclowncalledAlice however with the new trucks - already semi automated,
and the fully automated road trains due soon those issue are negated. It doesn’t matter about eyesight and reaction times. The truck does it for you. (Imo I hate them but that’s modernisation for you).
the drivers causing accidents or dying behind the wheel or committing suicide are the 40-50 year olds. The older drivers are in many ways a lot safer. As for hip/ knee problems - they don’t happen to the same degree due to automatic gearboxes. But these age related issues can also happen in any industry at any age even office work. My pony is at least there are medical checks in place - I would prefer a 70 year old lorry driver to be in work over a 70 year old carer or nurse who have no such checks either for their own safety or for the safety of others.

Who is 'they'? This wasn't planned by anybody, the fact that we now live substantially longer and healthy lives is a social good but creates a massive financial time-bomb in the context of demographic imbalance. That is simply a reality regardless of political persuasion, system of government or who is in power at a particular time.

I agree, how people have lived GENERALLY in the last 50 to 60 years is an anomoly in the long span of human history, largely artificially created by drawing down the earths resources for the now. I fully expect correction of that, if people think that the average person in 2060 will get 20+ years to go on cruises, play golf and go out for lunch after they retire, they're dreaming.

ANBU

This generation is so entitled to think they deserve decades of retirement. When the state pensions were initially created they where only supposed to fund 3 years on average THREE. People are living way longer even if life expectancy are finally stalling. Why should the younger generation be funding the decades of retirement when they can't even save a fraction of that for their own. They will never get that because it is unsustainable

Let me repeat. The taxes from 40 years of working does not cover decades of retirement. You have not earned it!!

Let me repeat. The taxes from 40 years of working does not cover decades of retirement. You have not earned it!!
I don’t understand this, my DH and I have 1.5 million in our pension pots, our mega taxes has paid many peoples child benefit etc. We are early to mid 50’s and haven’t even factored state pensions into our calculations when we retired earlier this year.

But how else are many people going to survive without a state pension. I'm not there yet but my private pension is predicted to be ridiculously small (£500 a year!) despite paying in for 20 years. DH has a company (not final salary) pension he has been paying in for 25 years and it's small even with him and the company contributing at a decent rate. It’s worth less than one person minimum full time wage with both of us combined. We can't afford to pay anymore in 🤷‍♀️ Payments we make are in line with our salaries. We may get decades of state pension or may not, who knows. If so, we are most definitely not going to be living in luxury. If we can continue to work or earn money in some way we will, but who knows how our health will be. Many people are not able to work into their 70s due to chronic health problems. Some can, but many physically wouldn't be able to do it even with office type work. It would be very unusual for a 70 year old to be able to work full time in a physical job.

Since the state pension started, it has always been the case that younger generations have financed pensions with their taxes, they then in turn get the same when they are old. I see no reason to believe this won't continue. What other solution would there be other than letting old people starve homeless on the streets? Worst case scenario if state pensions were abolished, I would have thought is that people could claim universal credit though this once again would be funded by younger tax payers.

Let me repeat. The taxes from 40 years of working does not cover decades of retirement. You have not earned it!!

I paid into an occupational pension for 40 years as well as 40 years of income tax and NI. And never claimed child benefit or tax credits.

The vast majority don't live decades, retire at 67 and the average life span is around 80, so 13 years, barely ONE decade... its not very long is it? especially as much of it may well be with ill health.

If you die before retiring, nothing or very little will go to a surviving partner.

The very original concept of a pension was to provide subsistence living for people too old and infirm to work anymore who hadn't yet died. The very first retirement age was set after the average life expectancy. It was expected that the majority of people would die before retirement age.

The concept of time to enjoy yourself between ending work and infirmity is a very recent one really. Last 70 to 50 years maximum.

The retirement age and average life expectancy are 67 and 84. That's a long time.

I paid into an occupational pension for 40 years as well as 40 years of income tax and NI. And never claimed child benefit or tax credits.

I don't think that makes you unique does it? I have paid NI since I was 17 & a pp since I was in my 20s. My retirement age is 68, that's a lot of NI contributions plus the new h&s levy is an additional one.

The concept of time to enjoy yourself between ending work and infirmity is a very recent one really.

But it's how it should be. Why should people spend their whole lives in education, work, or ill-health? We absolutely should have time to retire and enjoy life without working.

I don’t understand this, my DH and I have 1.5 million in our pension pots, our mega taxes has paid many peoples child benefit etc. We are early to mid 50’s and haven’t even factored state pensions into our calculations when we retired earlier this year.

But surely you are aware most couples don't have million pound pensions?

In essence if people don't want to work, for whatever reason, then they need to save enough to be able to live their life without income.

If you work for 40 years and then have 30 years in retirement, then you are going to have to save significantly more to be able to afford it.

Sacrifice spending today for spending in the future.

Everyone could make that choice bit most people don't want to save enough. Very understandably when the cost of living is so high

Let me repeat. The taxes from 40 years of working does not cover decades of retirement. You have not earned it!!

I dispute that. By the time I retire, by a rough calculation I will have paid over £400k in NI (not to mention over £3M in taxes).

Let’s assume that the NI payment is split 50:50 pension and health care (so £200k over 40 years), and is the equivalent to investment at the point it was deducted. It would have grown to a pension pot of approx £500k after 40 years, and would give an annuity of £21kpa.

State pension is only £7kpa, so yes I think I have more than earned it!

My state pension age is 67. My occupational pension age was 60. I retired on a voluntary early retirement scheme at age 58. I’ve not taken anything I wasn’t entitled to.

The school leaving age was 16 in 1979. I left school at 15 but it changed in 1971 I think.

Average salary in UK £26,000.
Annual national insurance payment £1867 per year.

Work for 40 years. Pay NI £74,680 over working life.

State pension £9, 627.

Pension age 67
Average life expectancy 84.

Pension paid for 17 years.

Total pension payment. £163, 659.

Therefore the pension payment is more than double the contributions.

Government has to make decisions on averages. Many many more people will pay in lots more. But many many people will pay in lots less.

So if wanted to balance the books for the average person then would need to more than double the amount that is paid in NI .

Wouldn't the contributions grow if invested or if Govt using the money then a notional interest rate should be added.

I started work at 15 and at 69 I'm still working. No idea how much NI I've paid but for many years was earning well above the average. Of course I don't pay NI now, still paying tax though.

Also the cost of the NHS, free prescriptions, social care etc. Obviously this crosses all ages but need increases with age.

Of course I don't pay NI now, still paying tax though.

From next year you will pay the h&s levy as that won't cease upon pension age.

And figures not adjusted for inflation etc for simplicity.

State pension is paid out of current NI contributions. It's not an investment fund.

@Dishwashersaurous your calculation is flawed. You are not taking interest into account, which would be considerable over a 40 year period.

One nurse in Devon was still working in her 80s. I think that was reported about 4 years ago. Just googled her, she retired in 2018 at 86. She was an NHS nurse for 66 years. Amazing record. She did my weight/height/BP when I was admitted a few years ago. She easily seemed 20 years younger than her actual age, very positive cheerful woman.