Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

Transactional parenting

30 replies

SpringSpringTime · 10/06/2022 20:22

I have the kind of 4 year old of whom people say ‘ooh…he’s got a lot of energy’ with varying levels of amazement/tension. He’s a total delight but also cannot be contained (or at least barely). However! He is a straightforward little soul who responds incredibly well to if-that-then-this logic and I realise it’s basically become the backbone of my parenting. My go-to is ‘if x continues then no telly in the morning’, or 1-2-3 (where 3=no telly in the morning). This seems like a fairly minor threat that he really responds to though consequences escalate if he ignores me and I always follow through! I do sometimes try to appeal to his empathy/better judgement but tbh it takes too bloody long if it works at all and in the meantime he might have set the house on fire. But I do wonder if this is going to have unintended consequences later on! Soooo….YABU=you are creating a monster or YANBU=please tell me you do this too

OP posts:

MrsTerryPratchett · 10/06/2022 20:24

Both.

Natural consequences are great. Quick, natural and they work. You still work on the empathy though.

Original poster

SpringSpringTime · 10/06/2022 20:28

😬He tries to haggle back by uninviting me from his birthday party…I tell him I love him no matter what but he still has to brush his teeth!

To be fair he’s ok with other kids, he just doesn’t bloody listen to anything other than a half brick in a sock 😉

OP posts:

PunchyAnts · 10/06/2022 20:43

I think you are giving yourself a bit of a hard time. Sounds like there are boundaries in place and you are sticking with them which is the main thing. Best not to call them or think of them as threats.

Natural consequences are related to the behaviour you would like to stop and ideally immediate. Something like, "I can't let you hit that toy off the TV. If I see you doing that again, that toy is going away until tomorrow". It's good to teach the behaviour you do want to see alongside that by offering some suggestions of acceptable ways to play with the toy.

The thing about empathising with him is that it definitely appears like it's not "working". Saying "I can see you're upset about the toy going away" probably won't result in him instantly repenting of his misbehaviour. But it is a way of teaching him to regulate his behaviour and learn about his emotions.

SalmonEile · 10/06/2022 20:46

What happens if he’s done something to warrant no Telly in the morning and then he does something else bad? Or is the threat enough to stop him

ChocolateHippo · 10/06/2022 21:00

They don't have a lot of empathy/better judgement at that age... you have to model to them how their actions make others feel and even then it takes a while for them to get it. I think having clear consequences for misbehaviour is fine, even if somewhat 'transactional', until your DS is mature enough to want to behave well for its own reward.

CaptainMyCaptain · 10/06/2022 21:07

It sounds quite normal to me. I'm not sure what the alternative would be

Thinkbiglittleone · 10/06/2022 21:28

Isn't this just teaching them a consequence to their action and normal.

"If you do X which is unkind or not nice, then Z happens"

I think it's good parenting

Original poster

SpringSpringTime · 10/06/2022 21:59

Then we escalate to no telly all week…I’ve never had to follow through on that one!

thanks all…I had a moment with him today where I asked him to do something quite simple (put wellies on) and he, in all curiosity, asked ‘or what will happen’. I did a bit of a double take there as I didn’t mean to make every single action enforceable! I think I said something like ‘well you just do need to put them on so we can go out, but if I have to ask again it’s 1-2-3’. I suppose that’s ok!

OP posts:

antelopevalley · 10/06/2022 22:05

He is four years old. As he ages you will be able to appeal to his empathy and reasoning skills more. But at his age, these skills will still need a lot of development. You are parenting him in an age appropriate way.

Findahouse21 · 10/06/2022 22:13

The potential difficulty that I can forsee is when he calls your bluff - if he has already (hypothetically) lost a week's worth of TV then where do you step it up to? Also, a week is so long to a 4 year old that you end up with him feeling like there's nothing to loose, so he might as well be naughty. That's why I prefer natural and immediate consequences where possible.

I also think that if loosing a morning's TV is your go to sanction then it's quite harsh (imo) to get that sanction for just not putting his wellies on. For small stuff like that I tend not to give consequences, but be quite mater of fact - dd, I've asked twice for you to put your wellies on, now you can choose will you do it or will I? Tends to get things moving.

I'm not saying that my approach is better but just food for thought?

Kanaloa · 10/06/2022 22:18

For things like not putting wellies on I don’t think I’d start threatening the big punishment - I mean in that case what do you do if he does something really naughty? When he asked ‘or what will happen’ I think that’s just curiosity about cause and effect. He was opening a conversation with you. I’d say ‘you will have soggy socks! Nobody wants that. I’m putting my wellies/boots on too to keep me nice and warm when we go to x. Let’s do it quick sticks.’

I think consequences are great but so is conversation! For unacceptable things a punishment is fine (because losing TV is a punishment really, not a linear consequence). But for asking what will happen if you don’t put wellies on, a conversation is great.

Fulbe · 10/06/2022 22:52

Focusing too much on punishment isn't an effective strategy. Whilst it seems to be working with him now, it generally only works in the presence of the punisher (which is why people do bad things if they think they can get away with it). Generally behaviour is better taught by encouraging/ reinforcing desired behaviour. I'm sure you probably do this too - praise, giving treats contingent on good behaviour etc. If he's quite energetic, focusing more on the times when he's been sitting quietly and praising him for that will likely help. Don't shoot the dog is an excellent book which I would highly recommend.

ringoutthebells · 11/06/2022 07:18

Yes I agree with the above poster, I don't agree this is good parenting and think it will come back to bite you. Not sure why there needs to be a threat at all, just hold the boundary? I don't think elevating tv in this way is helpful either. But each to their own!

pintsizedproblem · 11/06/2022 07:24

CaptainMyCaptain · 10/06/2022 21:07

It sounds quite normal to me. I'm not sure what the alternative would be

Completely agree. They are testing boundaries constantly at that age.

Unfortunately that never goes away.

byvirtue · 11/06/2022 07:30

Calm parents happy kids is a good book to get you out of this. I fell into a rut of using “threats” to get my daughter to behave/do what I wanted. I hated it, everything became a battle and I felt I was manipulating her, I just didn’t like it. I read the book above and it’s completely taken away the need for any threats, just understanding how their brains work, empathising with them, understanding why certain behaviours make us cross and reinforcing boundaries in a playful way should get the desired result without the threats.

CaptainMyCaptain · 11/06/2022 07:33

I would say 'conseqyences' rather than 'punishment' and make it more relevant than no TV. Also, in the case of wellies, is it absolutely essential he wears them? If he won't then the consequences might be that his feet get wet and he will learn that way.

Goodskin46 · 11/06/2022 07:35

I had a 4 year old just like this. Transactional parenting all the way. He is on track for 4 A*s at A-Level, has captained school sports clubs and his football team has just finished top of the league. He is just very ambitious and motivated personality. But is also an incredible young man.

pintsizedproblem · 11/06/2022 07:36

CaptainMyCaptain · 11/06/2022 07:33

This is good advice. There are consequences to actions and this is a good way to learn that lesson. Maybe one day even let him experience a couple of the consequences rather than punishment and he might make a different decision next time.

bumblingbovine49 · 11/06/2022 07:38

But say he was an adult and chose not to wear wellies what would be the consequence? I'd have said that his feet would get wet when we went outside ( I assume it was wet outside which is why he needed wellies) . If he this said he wanted wet feet ( can imagine a 4 year old saying they ) I'd have let him choose some other shoes and taken him out in those . Wet feet are hardly the end of the world !

If it was just he didn't want to wear shoes at all, then that is non negotiable but I'd have given him a choice about what shoes to wear, just not the fact of wearing shoes. That is what I would call picking my battles

ThisIsNotARealAvo · 11/06/2022 07:39

The problem with natural consequences is that they don't always happen! My children are adopted and can't really manage reward and punishment thinking. We were advised to use natural consequences but in reality these don't happen. If DS didn't put on his wellies, we couldn't make him and he would refuse to leave the house. The consequence of that is no one goes out, he gets what he wanted which was not to go out because he was terrified of everything. He wouldn't come on the walk anyway with no wellies but maybe other children would.

So many times we advise them if what could happen eg "if you don't brush your teeth your breath will smell and no one will want to sit next to you". Never happened. Don't jump up and down on the bus seats or you'll hurt yourself/get told off? Never happened. Don't spend all your money on sweets today or you'll have none left for tomorrow?Happened, but sweets can be stolen so what's the point?

I think it's fine to use punishments such as no telly as long as it's manageable and appropriate- if he has no tv for a week where's the motivation to be good?

Yodaisawally · 11/06/2022 07:46

Transactional parenting - did you make that up or is it another daft label?!

It's being a parent and it sounds quite normal.

Goodskin46 · 11/06/2022 07:46

Comeback to bite you, how ?
IMO/E DCs loke this need clear rules and firm bounderies. Dd (DC2) was and is much more of gentle parenting candidate, wanted to please adults, responded to praise. DS quite frankly didn't give a f@#k unless if affected him directly.

Goodskin46 · 11/06/2022 07:53

So the Wellies example (DS aged 2)
Me : "It's raining today DS we need to wear our wellies"
DS: "I don't want to wear my Wellies"
Me: "I can see that, but we need to wear our Wellies when it's raining"
DS: "No, no Wellies"
Me: "When you have got your Wellies on we can jump in puddles otherwise you will have to stay in the buggy"
DS: Either puts Wellies on or is strapped into buggy with socks on (Wellies in bottom of buggy)

Soontobe60 · 11/06/2022 07:54

I’m assuming you don’t have to negotiate everything. Children need to learn to make decisions based in their own experiences, so if they don’t put their wellies on, they don’t get to go to the park, rather than they lose TV time. The consequence should be linked to the action wherever possible. Give him opportunities to work out what might happen if he doesn’t comply. So if he doesn’t put his wellies on, just don’t take him out. When he asks why you’re not going out, ask him if he knows why.

CaptainMyCaptain · 11/06/2022 08:32

Also, don't make it all about negative consequences. Don't forget the rewards and praise.

Flip

1 2